Lord Vader

What a crock. Networking is getting a face put to your name rather than another damned email and generic resume. Go on a job "hunt", not a letter writing campaign. It is networking, not nepotism. If Canadians are unworthy of "your standards" then I'd suggest finding somewhere that is.

Aviator

You seem to be missing the point and unwilling to adapt to the way things are done. It works, just maybe not the way you are used to. If I find someone by meeting them in person and think they are suitable, I am going to hire them rather than waste time advertising. All this electronic networking just does not do it, many employers don't bother with that, it is face to face, meeting people. You don't have to be friends with people you network with. Taking the 'I am better than this' attitude ain't going to get you very far. Every country does things differently, like it or not, it is the way it is and is not likley to change. I certainly never had any problem with it, I came up against the same 'old school tie' network in the UK, far more than in Canada.

Perhaps it is not the country? Don't kid yourself it is different anywhere else. Everywhere, it is not what you know, but who you know. I even recall my grandfather telling me this 30+ years ago. Frequently seemingly the best candidates for a position get overlooked because they don't know how to sell themselves. Good business people put the best person for the job in that position. Candidates may not agree with the decision, but they also don't always see the big picture the way an employer does.

Failing is being unwilling to adapt to they local way of doing things and giving up.

Then surely you do whatever it takes to look after them, regardelss of your 'principles'. You dont get fat on principles.

People in networks are rarely 'mates' but business connections. I do most of my hiring through the network I have built up because it has the highest success rate. I meet the sort of people I want to hire, go getters, willing to do what it takes to get the job done. An employer should like the people they work with, but they don't have to be best buddies.

The only pathetic thing is whiners who are not willing to adapt or even try to adapt to a new country and way of doing things, complaining and blaming everything else but looking at themselves, because it is beneath them. If everything is so much better in the UK or elsewhere for that matter, why come to Canada? Go getters don't whine or have the time to whine.

Shitty things happen to us all from time to time, the only solution is get up and get on with it. Move on to the next chapter.

JonboyE

It won't.

I've talked enough about myself (though it is a fascinating topic ) so I'll tell the story of two of my friends.

V emigrated from China with her husband and baby in 1998. In China she was an economist with a masters degree and 5 years experience working with a big mineral import/export company. Could she get work in Canada? No chance. She ended up working a till part-time in a grocery store in Chinatown and filling up her day by volunteering at a local community centre.

Her husband was an auto mechanic. He got occasional work at an independent repair shop but, as has been discussed on here, it is hard to make a living wage if you are bottom of the pile in the shop.

They were living in a damp one bedroom top floor apartment in a run down building on the Eastside. It was a **** hole. The sort of place the poorest student would turn their nose up at, but it was all they could afford.

I met her while studying for CGA exams. Also on the course were a couple of guys who were planning to start a new business. V thought they had some promise so she offered to work for them for free for a year. The business is thriving. Now she is a qualified account and earning a qualified accountant`s salary.

Her husband also went back to school and trained as an engineering technician. After doing an apprenticeship, on apprentices wages, he now has a secure, permanent job with a large public sector organization.

Last year they bought a million dollar house in Vancouver.



B came to Vancouver from Korea about the same time. She was also a graduate with working experience in her country but the only work she could get was in the kitchen of a Korean restaurant. She said she used to cry herself to sleep at night thinking what a bloody idiot she was to have given up the life she had at home for this.

She met her husband in Vancouver - another immigrant without two cents to rub together. Before getting hitched they sat down and worked out a plan to get what they wanted from their life. For B this involved learning to be a SAP DBA, for her husband a job with a big international IT consulting firm. It took some doing and there were many trials and tribulations along the along the way. It took B years to find the job she wanted but after trying all along the west coast of Canada and the US she finally ended up with a great job in Calgary.

They now have a lovely daughter, they have sponsored his parents into Canada, they earn over a $1/4M a year between them and have invested in real estate in Seattle.

The moral is rather obvious. If these people can build a life for themselves in Canada then anyone reading this post can do likewise. It mostly depends on how much they want it.

ann m

That is interesting Jonboy and I applaud their sticking power.

I would hazard a guess, however, that there are a couple of issues that affect many of this board

i) Children! I might be dedicated enough to live in a s**hole and eat baked beans for a year to get what I want - but not with children in tow. It is irresponsible (IMHO) to purposefully put all of you through that low level of living standards - when you didn't come from that ....

ii) which leads me onto my other thoughts. People coming from a decent standard of living in the UK (and to be honest, most people will come from a decent standard of living with regards to a roof over their heads and shelter and warmth, etc, even if they don't view it as enough at the time - if things were soooo bad in the UK, you would not be able to even afford the visa fees or the flight over) are less likely to want or be able to put up with $8 an hour wages and live in a s***hole apartment for any length of time.

There's an attitude of knowing things might get a bit tough for a year or two - as opposed to knowingly sinking your every last penny in the hope that something will work out, at some point - before you're heading off to the foodbank. Why would (UK) people purposefully put themselves in this position? I guess I don't get it.

There's a fine line between aiming for your goals and leaving it too late to pay for a flight 'home' where you have a support network. I would not be that brave, or ambitious But then, I'm honest enough to admit that Canada is not my be-all-and-end-all. It might be for others and they have a better tolerance for crappy jobs, tough times and a perceived lower standard of living, 'till it all works out in the end - whenever that might be.

That's what make the world an interesting place ....

elizabeth_action

This might sound naive but could it be that the Canadians are not like the British in that they feel more connected and friendly with one another generally and therefore find that 'networking' comes naturally to them?

Here in the UK it is more appropriate to go through the mill of a cold application process because we are strangers to each other, treat each other as such at every turn and expect to be treated so.

IMO this observation of the British is a fact of life and could explain why they find the Canadian way of hiring difficult to come to terms with.

...hmm...

JonboyE, great stories and well done to them.

However as ann m points out, coming from the UK where we have a decent standard of living puts us in a different mindset. If I was single, yes I’d put up with crap, if we were a couple then we’d support each other and get through it.

However when you have kids (of school age) you will want the best for them. Is it worth living on minimum wage, only to be able to afford somewhere in a poor area with poor schooling? Doesn’t exactly fill me with desire to think that the dream could adversely affect my children’s future.

Going on though, I did not expect it to be an easy ride to come over to Canada but there is no way that I would do something that is detrimental to my family in terms of quality of life or future prospects. If I could afford to buy a nice house in a good area without a mortgage then minimum wage may be acceptable but being realistic, that purchasing power, I do not have.

Overall since I started this thread, there have been many citations on ‘attitude’ etc, to further pursue this point, we have dreams of moving here and we know it will be hard but our dreams do not mean that we should destroy completely the family unit. I have been in positions where no money has come into the house and its hard but in those cases I have had a strong family to support and not relied on welfare. My desire to come to this country is to enjoy my life, not worry if its heating or food this month, not both and unlike some systems, I am definitely not here to scrounge of welfare/ food banks etc, I am here to make a new life but not destroy what I have done so far. Thus is it wrong to aspire for those positions where I can fulfil the dream?

Alan2005

I think it's the opposite. They are only connected with close friends and family. Superficial relationships come easy to them.

JonboyE

This is it. For my friends, and to some extent for me, going back was not in the thought process. We were going to make it come what may. It was much easier for me because I speak English and came with a chunk of change from the sale of our house but my friends didn't whinge or complain about their lot. Their attitude was, "this is the life we have chosen for ourselves so let's get on and make the most of it."

In some ways it is too easy to give up now.

We have discussed three motivations for coming to Canada on this thread:

a) Canada looks like a good place to live and we'll give it a go if we can get well paid jobs we like.
b) Canada looks like a good place to live so let's give it a go. If it works it works. If it doesn't we'll move on, or back.
c) We are going to live in Canada. <- that's a full stop

Each is a perfectly reasonable motivation. However, anyone in c) has to accept that a financial and career "hit" is almost inevitable. As Brits we are better placed than most, but it is still going to happen. At this point we have to have positive reasons (the pull of Canada) to inspire us to make the compromises that are part and parcel of the immigration experience. One thing that will not help is to complain about all things Canadian.

JonboyE

Of course not. All I am saying is that some pain for the gain is to be expected, but your aspirations are achievable. The question is how much of the "pain" are you prepared to put your family through. I can't tell you the answer to that - it is a decision you have to make with your family. And I think "none" is an honest and honorable answer.

If you do decide to press on you are going to have to get rid of this mindset:

not being horrible but the employment methods in Canada stink, its who you know and not what you can do, jobs for the boys, nepotism etc are the real deals. I envy those of you who have succeeded, shame I can't sell my PR! (from post #1)


Not only is it not true, it is self-fulfilling. If it means enough to you you will make the connections necessary to get on the inside. When you do you will find out that there is no inside. Just ordinary people going about their business the best they can, and companies that look for quick and cost-effective ways to find the talent they need.

You have picked a lousy time to look for work in the oil and gas industry, but I guess that is not your fault. It will get better in the future and companies will be hiring again. Unfortunately I don't know when.

JonboyE

As an aside, B had a heart of gold when I met her, kind and compassionate in a rare way. That has not changed. But to see her grow from a shy, introspective and somewhat confused young woman into the serene, confident and capable professional she is today is one of those joys that life gives up too rarely. I guess it is part of the immigration experience.

We don't see each other too often these days but they are coming to stay with us when we go to see the figure skating at the Olympics. Yay.

canadian_critic

Moving to Canada has been a disaster for me. I am trying to be constructive for others who have not yet made the move. Unfortunately all the positive responses I've had have been through PM. That says a lot for this forum and the people in it. No doubt despite not saying anything about myself, this message will be followed will a plethora of judgement. And that's why I stupidly keep coming back here to share my experience to only wish I hadn't bothered, time and time again.

Good luck though - I'll be glad to see the back of this place. And for some of the people on this forum, glad that you're staying.

Cheerybye

Tangram

With a user name of canadian critic, what response did you expect ? It certainly doesn't lend itself to the belief that your views will be balanced in any way.

I don't love the place and I don't hate it either. Is it better than the Cotswolds I left behind - in some ways yes, in others no. But on balance I would rather be here right now than anywhere ( money excluded ) I can think of.

hereandthere

I think he has had a tough time though and his user name doesn't justify that. I believe his original intention of just trying to warn people of some of the pitfalls.

Aviator

Bad experiences can make people feel bitter and despondent. As hard as it can be, attitude makes all the difference to the outcome and attitude is the one thing we all have control over.

This post speaks volumes, now this forum and the people on it are at fault for not agreeing. Why do you have feel everything is someone else's fault? If you post on here you are going to get mixed opinions. Like it or not, some you may agree with others not.

rae

thats fair enough, but i think lambasting all of us on here is a bit much, if he went back a few pages he would see a series of positive comments all offering help, including one from yours truly.