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Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Old Feb 2nd 2008, 9:27 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Maybe I'm being over-sensitive on his behalf.

When I discovered this site I was well into the immigration process and had found out most of the info for myself.

However, if somebody is just beginning the process I should imagine this site, as it is now, is an absolute goldmine for the information that is on here ..... and most of the collation of that info has been done by Judy herself, for which she deserves all the karma in the world!

Here it is .... on a plate ..... but some people still do not seem to get which cupboard to look in, even if they are clearly signposted!

Seems to me, one can either ridicule those people, give them the answers they want, point them in the right direction or just ignore their requests for help.

It is absolutely up to the individual how you want to respond, and personally it depends on my mood at the time how helpful I want to be, together with how much time I have etc .....

I just feel that if I came here and had sarcastic responses to my first questions .... I would probably wander off and miss the chance of some really useful help.

I'm thinking of wandering off anyway. Maybe it's time!
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Old Feb 2nd 2008, 9:30 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by Morwenna View Post
I'm thinking of wandering off anyway. Maybe it's time!
Got a bunch of horses standing in a foot of snow waiting for my attention. I'll be right back so please don't leave.

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Old Feb 2nd 2008, 9:48 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by Morwenna View Post
Maybe I'm being over-sensitive on his behalf.

When I discovered this site I was well into the immigration process and had found out most of the info for myself.

However, if somebody is just beginning the process I should imagine this site, as it is now, is an absolute goldmine for the information that is on here ..... and most of the collation of that info has been done by Judy herself, for which she deserves all the karma in the world!

Here it is .... on a plate ..... but some people still do not seem to get which cupboard to look in, even if they are clearly signposted!

Seems to me, one can either ridicule those people, give them the answers they want, point them in the right direction or just ignore their requests for help.

It is absolutely up to the individual how you want to respond, and personally it depends on my mood at the time how helpful I want to be, together with how much time I have etc .....

I just feel that if I came here and had sarcastic responses to my first questions .... I would probably wander off and miss the chance of some really useful help.

I'm thinking of wandering off anyway. Maybe it's time!
Don't wander Morwenna we need all opinions, tips and stories
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Old Feb 2nd 2008, 10:59 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Morwennas post prompted me to start a thread I've been thinking of starting for quite a while.

You find it here.
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Old Feb 2nd 2008, 11:27 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

quick question..... whats a wiki and where can we find one?

seriously though, when we first discovered this forum we lurked and we lurked for ages, reading as much info as we could (threads and the wiki) before we even thought about breaking cover and posting our first post

we have done the google searches etc but nowhere else has helped us as much as here and yes the long termers (Judy etc) are a godsend and a welth of knowelage that really is invaluable, so thanks guys

just forgive us when we do still ask a stupid question
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 12:29 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Bartsimpson, I wasn't reacting to your lack of knowledge about Canada's immigration and job hunting systems, which are closely linked to each other.

I also wasn't reacting to your lack of knowledge of the British Expats website.

At one time all of us were new to Canadian immigration / job hunting and also new to this website.

What I was reacting to was what I perceived to be your sarcasm (clowns and idiots). You were brand new to the forum. It was your very first post here. I didn't think it was very prudent to post in that style before we knew you a little better.

Also, if that's how you introduced yourself to us, it made me wonder about the reception you'd elicit from prospective Canadian employers. In order to get a job here (and not just any job, but a job that qualified Canadians don't want and that will fast-track your entry to Canada), you really have to market yourself.

I don't know what your motivation for coming to Canada is. Some people find it's worth the hassle of immigrating and job hunting in this different employment culture. Some people don't.

Although I've read only a few lines of your writing, those few lines gave me the impression that you might be one of the people who wouldn't find it worthwhile.

If you haven't already read it, I recommend the Moving back to the UK forum. It's instructive to find out why some people return to the UK from other countries.

I wish you all the best with whichever path you ultimately choose.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 1:15 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Judy, honestly, you are the last person who needs to explain reasons behind your posts.

But for what it's worth, your reasons where the exact same as mine although I did restrain myself somewhat as I don't have your eloquence and ay with words. I loved your post.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 1:22 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by YYZlover View Post
Judy, honestly, you are the last person who needs to explain reasons behind your posts.

But for what it's worth, your reasons where the exact same as mine although I did restrain myself somewhat as I don't have your eloquence and ay with words. I loved your post.
ditto
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 3:08 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
If your occupation is in real demand in the province an employer may be willing to sponsor you.
That's the thing, unless your a carpenter, mechanic, nursery nurse etc. it isn't going to happen. Hell I even had an interview in Montreal once, with a software company, but when it came to them offering me a job they hadn't a clue about that LMO. It fell through because of that.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 3:16 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by R I C H View Post
Bart,

I had the same feelings 3 yrs ago - too impatient to wait for the lengthy processing times, so I got off my ass, made a trip to Canada, looked around and decided to start a business. From arriving back in the UK to returning to Canada, owning a property and business, it took 4mths.

I'm still waiting for permanent residency, but at least it's in the country I want to live in, and I'm not treading water in the UK watching the days go by.
Yeah that's what annoys me, it says "in process" from Jan 06, that hasn't changed. I paid these people If I remember $900 to sit on their ass and do nothing it seems. Anyway, how did you start a business with no residency card? You can only stay 6 months can't you? My business I run from the UK is very portable as it is internet based, so theoretically I can run it from there or anywhere. But that is another story.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 3:42 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by Bartsimpson1 View Post
Yeah that's what annoys me, it says "in process" from Jan 06, that hasn't changed. I paid these people If I remember $900 to sit on their ass and do nothing it seems. Anyway, how did you start a business with no residency card? You can only stay 6 months can't you? My business I run from the UK is very portable as it is internet based, so theoretically I can run it from there or anywhere. But that is another story.
Bart

If your company is internet based than you are well familliar with the terms

Google is your friend
Learn to use the search function

and

Nettiquete(sp?)

I am currently doing what Rich did. He has described his process here many times. Practice the above three terms and you will find plenty of answers to questions you didn't even know you had.

My company is, like yours, internet based and I do know the above terms and adhere to them as best I can.

You will gain far more respect from this site if you take those terms on board.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 3:58 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

hmm, that's not why i posted a thread though is it? To search around Google for an hour... Don't try to patronise me. I've already done this, but lost interest waiting for immigration Canada to do nothing, even though they will happily take my money. I looked on those jobs in demand lists, and it says the same thing as before - they have to proove they can't find a willing or able Canadian to that job. Hardly any employers will bother. Just recently I sent my CV to another recruitment company and they said the same thing they said a few years ago: "Are you eligible to work here, when are you coming?" There is a communication and red tape issue between trying to apply for a job and actually getting one offered. Then I presume the Canadian authorities will take about 6 months to "process" it.

If Canadia immigration was a hotel it would be 3 star.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 4:42 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by Bartsimpson1
If Canadia immigration was a hotel it would be 3 star.
Hmmm ....... I think you've overrated it. I'd call it a 2-star.

But, be that as it may .......

There are some members of this forum, who are in software development and such, who have obtained work permits without needing to get Labour Market Opinions first. See Citizenship and Immigration Canada's web page called Information Technology Workers.

One member of this forum (I seem to recall her saying she specialized in GIS) went to Victoria, BC on a working holiday visa through BUNAC (admittedly you have to be under 30 to do that) and then upgraded to permanent residence through British Columbia's Provincial Nominee Program.

I seem to recall that R I C H got a 3-year work permit (WP) on the basis that he was going to create a business. I don't remember the exact length of his WP, but it definitely was longer than six months.

When YYZlover referred to the search function, I think she was referring to the search function of this forum. You could use it to find posts in which R I C H has recounted his story, for example.

If you really want to speed your entry to Canada, I recommend that you read the following Wiki articles:
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Hi,

I'm not a software developer unfortunately I am a IT hardware / software sales manager. Thanks for the links and info though I am looking through them. Aside from this HRM Canada do employers even know it exists? I presume not, but If I just "apply" for a job, what do the employers then have to do? Call or write to HRM Canada and tell them they want to employ me? It is 2 star yes sorry I overrated it.
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Old Feb 3rd 2008, 8:31 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Is this a chicken and egg thing?

Originally Posted by Bartsimpson1 View Post
Hi,

I'm not a software developer unfortunately I am a IT hardware / software sales manager. Thanks for the links and info though I am looking through them. Aside from this HRM Canada do employers even know it exists? I presume not, but If I just "apply" for a job, what do the employers then have to do? Call or write to HRM Canada and tell them they want to employ me? It is 2 star yes sorry I overrated it.
Sorry, I don't understand what HRM Canada has to do with the topic. Actually, I don't even know what you mean by HRM Canada. I'm not trying to be obtuse. I genuinely don't know.

I did a Google search, found Human Resources Management Canada Inc., Human Resources Management Guide, Halifax Regional Municipality, and so on, but still didn't understand how any of them might have been relevant to what you'd written.

Anyway, from the context, I gather you're asking if Canadian employers in the private sector (as opposed to government officials who work in departments related to immigration) understand the process for sponsoring foreign workers who want to move to Canada.

The answer is that it depends. There are some organizations that have hired dozens, if not hundreds, of foreign workers. In those cases, the management and human resources departments of the organizations have experience in communicating with the government about immigration matters, and they know what to do.

Many organizations have never hired a worker from overseas, and don't have the faintest idea of how to go about it.

Some organizations have hired a few foreign workers, and have some idea of how to go about it, but are fuzzy on some of the details.

For example, my husband worked with a British engineer who was in Calgary on a temporary work permit for about eighteen months until the spring of 2007. The company's HR department told the British engineer that, if his wife wanted to work in Calgary, she'd have to find a job, her prospective employer would have to apply for a Labour Market Opinion, and then she'd have to apply for a work permit in her own right.

What the company's HR department told the guy was dead wrong. The spouses of work permit holders whose occupations fall into Skill Levels O, A and B on the National Occupational Classification are entitled to spousal open work permits. They can work in any job, for any employer, in any part of Canada.

We even had this man round to dinner at our house on a handful of occasions. It was only late into his stay in Calgary that I found out the reason for his wife's staying behind in the UK. Previously I had thought it was connected with their children, who were at university and one of whom was doing A-levels. But, when he told my husband and me about the work permit issue, he said that he and his wife would have been able to make other arrangements for their kids, and his wife would have moved to Calgary if she'd been able to work here (or, rather, if they'd known from the start that she was entitled to work here).

I was sorry to hear this as late as I did. If I'd known the reason early on, the knowledge that I'd gained from participating on this forum would have enabled me to put him straight right away. As it was, he found out the facts from other sources but, by the time he found out, he was approaching the end of the project on which he was working in Calgary, and it was too late.

I mention this because this and other examples have demonstrated to me that it's prudent to do one's own research about immigration issues.

Anyway, to get back to your original question about the prospective employer's role in the immigration process ....... Here are the contents of the Work Permit application process section of the Wiki article on Work Permits.

To apply for a temporary work permit, you need:
  • A job offer from a Canadian employer.
  • A positive labour market opinion (LMO) that your prospective employer has secured from Human Resources and Social Development Canada. HRSDC issue a positive LMO if they are satisfied that the employer has been unable to find a willing and able Canadian resident to fill the position. This means, amongst other things, that the employer has advertised the job across Canada and has found no qualified takers. Here is the section of the CIC website that provides information for Canadian employers.
  • A completed application for a temporary work permit.
  • To satisfy a visa officer that you will leave Canada when your work permit expires.
  • To demonstrate that you have enough money to support yourself and your family while you are in Canada.

.......

Note. According to the previous rules, the employer had to a apply to HRSDC for an LMO. Only after the LMO had been issued was the applicant allowed to submit an application for a temporary work permit. However, since February 23, 2007, CIC has allowed concurrent processing of the employer's application for an LMO and the foreign national's application for a work permit.

When it comes to Provincial Nominee Programs (PNPs), I believe employers who take advantage of those programs tend to be fairly well informed about them.

Another option you may want to investigate is the Nova Scotia Community Identified Stream.
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