Zoe Bell

Maybe a slight misunderstanding over the word " bar" ?

triumphguy

Not always true - in 1991 it was harder to get into the B.Ed (secondary social studies degree) in the U of C than their law faculty. The B.Ed was asking for 3.9 average and Law 3.3 (out of 4)

How do I know - I got into the B.ED course, and felt somewhat justified that my marks were more than high enough to get into the Law Faculty. So saying "bugger that" when I got the letter from the Law Society was doubly sweet.

Re LLB exams: we had four exams twice a year. Open book essays - no true/false or "pick one" questions. 5-7 hours long. The pass mark was 30% If you got more than 60% you were a bloody genius. Even Lord Denning MR wouldn't have got much above 60%! The whole of the course mark was based on the final exam. Term work counted for zero! If you failed one exam you had to retake all four a few weeks later (to make it fair to those that had passed the first time). Each exam was then different from the first four you took. If you failed one or more again you had to retake all four the next year (12 months later), and were sent down for the year!

I found the U of C to be a joke in comparison.

JGK

My cousin's eldest is looking at going to Uni to study law this year. She's talked to a few of her mother's friends who are lawyers/solicitors and it seems that there's a a big problem once you graduate. After graduating you need to "article" for one year usually while working as a junior in a legal firm. However, with the current economic climate the junior law firm positions just aren't available.

Some universities allow you to become articled as part of the course so it's probably wise to check out which Universities offer this option.

Weebie

British Education system is superior to Canada. Problem is that many law graduates in Canada still struggle to fidn work and the Canadian graduates will get the opportunities over overseas graduates. American/Canadian law is complicated and they don't tend to noramlly hire from overseas but overseas lawyers still work in these countries.

blackcomb1

That I agree with:

Weebie
British Education system is superior to Canada. Problem is that many law graduates in Canada still struggle to fidn work and the Canadian graduates will get the opportunities over overseas graduates. American/Canadian law is complicated and they don't tend to noramlly hire from overseas but overseas lawyers still work in these countries.



It is exactly what the guy from UK (Solicitor) has had to deal with over here and he is still slowly working his way back to where he was, I'd be pretty frustrated if that were me - I think he is too. I think our system is less complicated and better in the UK, the system over here is a shambles in comparison and needs to get sorted. The RCMP even told me they can't sort out the tobacco problem as there are lawyers who think marijuana should be legalized, very worrying and nuts

Oh and sadly it is not just lawyers from UK who come second to the Canadians, it is the same with Nursing (my line of work) and no doubt many others, it seems they will give the job to a Canadian on the whole before a foreigner. So seems we were treated 2nd with foreigners in our own country (UK) and are here too, at least my Son will have it better being born Canadian Citizen, and at least Canada has it right in looking after their own first, shame the UK could not do that with all of us.

Thankfully I found a more decent employer who is unbiased in that way, however it is casual employment which can be a bit frustrating but they don't employ full time etc in this particular job, still I'd not leave them ever, just find a 2nd job as I am doing which tend to not be a problem except right now as work is scarce due to tight budgets with the economy but that is temporary.

Boris-canadabound

I went to university in the UK and attained a LL.B (Hons) and can honestly say that I received an excellent legal education. I cannot compare it to the Canadian system as I have no knowledge of that.

dbd33

I cannot obtain an opinion from my child, the law student, on the description of her course load being "easy street" as she's gone sailing for the summer ( easy street for sure). That's a shame as she has a caustic turn of phrase and I think I might enjoy her comments. I would point out, however, that there's one complication in Canada not suffered in the UK; she "moots", that is debates in mock courts, for her school in both English and French. Making a legal argument in either of two languages requires a lot of background reading as the cases and the nuances of delivering the argument are not the same.

The point above about lack of opportunities for graduates is a good one. My understanding is that one's internship after the first year is crucial; it's very common to end up working for that firm. The other choice is a position with interesting work, public defender, environmental law, something in band treaty negotiation, jobs that pay less than a living wage before consideration of the debt incurred in getting to that position. Effective schmoozing in the first terms seems critical.

Almost Canadian

I`ve been rumbled

Point is, non law students would be able to answer that question. On the equivalent paper in England, I can`t think of any question that all but the very well read would be able to answer.

Almost Canadian

I don`t doubt that it is more difficult to obtain a place on others courses. What I said was meant to demonstrate that, once in, few fail.

How do I know - I got into the B.ED course, and felt somewhat justified that my marks were more than high enough to get into the Law Faculty. So saying "bugger that" when I got the letter from the Law Society was doubly sweet.

My exams followed the regular degree pattern - 40% pass, 50%+ for a 2:2, 60%+ for a 2:1, 70%+ for a first. The highest mark for any paper was 73%. When my first paper was marked 67% I thought is was crap (had been in the Army and that would be a crap mark on any of their papers) and was told that I had done well.

Almost Canadian

The difference I have found between England and Canada is that, in England, the firms look for someone that they want to employ and then offer them Articles. Very few are not kept on after articles.

In Canada, the firms don`t look beyond Articling and will offer 100 students articles, knowing full well they will only keep 20 on. The "best" 20 make it, the others don`t. The advantage with Canada, though, is that once called to the Bar, the lawyer can immediately set up shop on their own. In England, one has to have a minimum of 3 years post qualification experience, before one is allowed to set up shop on one`s own.

I don`t believe this could ever be the case, it is the Law Societies that dictate prerequisites for Articles, not the Universities. I very much doubt that this is true.

Almost Canadian

US and Canadian law is based on the law of England and Wales so I don`t understand what you are saying here.

I have never heard of an English lawyer struggle to get to grips with US or Canadian law.

The English LL.B. is so well respected that it is fully accepted by the New York Bar. All one needs to do is write the Bar exam.

Almost Canadian

I don`t know if being able to argue in two languages is required in all Universities in Canada. In England there isn`t the bilingual issue. Great skill to have though

This is very true and reflects the whole Canadian network thing. However, if one is a good lawyer they are a good lawyer. Not obtaining articles at a large firm is unlikely to be a factor if one sets up on their own, becomes a leading light in a practice area and then moves to a large firm at a later date.

I used to work for Eversheds in England, then the 4th largest firm in the world. I always felt like I was lawyer 1524, whose office, I think, may be past the coke machine on the 17th floor. I enjoyed my time there and it proved to me that I could cut it with the so-called "big firm" lawyers. Wild horses couldn`t drag me back to work for a firm of that size.

Lethe

I have no idea what the Canadian law schools are like but had a couple of friends who read Law at Durham and it seemed to be to be a bit of a game, they had to go to Law Society balls and the networking system was really fierce.
I would in no way say that the British Education system is 'better' than the Canadian system...it's just different and it seems obvious if you want to study a region specific course you ought to study in the region you're wanting to practice in, don't make life more complicated than it needs to be.
I think the system in the UK is pretty terrible at the moment, if you don't get the grades to go to a redbrick or first division Uni don't waste the money as it really is the school they look at when applying for Graduate jobs. Coming from Plymouth I knew people who graduated with high 2.1's and 1st class degrees who applied for the same jobs as people at Durham who finished with lower 2.1's and it wasn't the Plymouth lot who got the jobs! After I graduated from Durham I had one interview in London where the entire first round was just me and a management consultant from Durham trading stories on playing women's rugby.