Originally Posted by dbd33

I think this paper propogates a notion of the Irish as being unique that it is unable to sustain through the food examples given.

Granted "food consumption practices can help to reflect and constitute Irishness" but is this true to any greater degree than for other diasporic populations? I suggest not. My detailed and extended studies of the Swiss and Southern American populations in Southern Ontario suggest that bathtub schnapps, raclet, pulled pork and crucially, grits, occupy a similar position in the cultural conciousness of those populations as does champ and colcannon in that of the displaced Irish. And these are not tight knit displaced populations, one might look at Italians in New York or Eastern Europeans in Winnipeg for communities bound around pasta and perogies.

The author's point that the foods symbolic to the Irish abroad are those of the poor is, I think, reduced to banality by consideration of the examples above; the cultural tie is always to the food of the poor. The Londoner returning as a tourist is damp eyed over jellied eels even as he eats mussels.

The sending of foods from home is in no way specifically Irish, the Swiss send Chocolate, the Americans grits and peppers. Knowledge of the preparation of foods traditional to those cultures is gleaned on trips home and is equally valued in a new land as is an Irishwoman's mashing prowess.

My knowledge of the role of speciality food in the narrative of feminism within the diasporic Swiss and Southern American womyn's communities is insufficient to allow comparison with the views advanced in the article quoted. I suggest that the gender roles described are no more pronounced among the displaced Irish than among other populations but, in order to consider the issue at length I need a large grant; pay it in Black Bush if you will.

Originally Posted by Alan2005

I like marmite.

Originally Posted by dbd33

I think this paper propogates a notion of the Irish as being unique that it is unable to sustain through the food examples given.

Granted "food consumption practices can help to reflect and constitute Irishness" but is this true to any greater degree than for other diasporic populations? I suggest not. My detailed and extended studies of the Swiss and Southern American populations in Southern Ontario suggest that bathtub schnapps, raclet, pulled pork and crucially, grits, occupy a similar position in the cultural conciousness of those populations as does champ and colcannon in that of the displaced Irish. And these are not tight knit displaced populations, one might look at Italians in New York or Eastern Europeans in Winnipeg for communities bound around pasta and perogies.

The author's point that the foods symbolic to the Irish abroad are those of the poor is, I think, reduced to banality by consideration of the examples above; the cultural tie is always to the food of the poor. The Londoner returning as a tourist is damp eyed over jellied eels even as he eats mussels.

The sending of foods from home is in no way specifically Irish, the Swiss send Chocolate, the Americans grits and peppers. Knowledge of the preparation of foods traditional to those cultures is gleaned on trips home and is equally valued in a new land as is an Irishwoman's mashing prowess.

My knowledge of the role of speciality food in the narrative of feminism within the diasporic Swiss and Southern American womyn's communities is insufficient to allow comparison with the views advanced in the article quoted. I suggest that the gender roles described are no more pronounced among the displaced Irish than among other populations but, in order to consider the issue at length I need a large grant; pay it in Black Bush if you will.

Originally Posted by dbd33

Of course, the love of Marmite is a cultural artifact, it derives from a shared collective memory of yeast byproducts. Fragments of toast dotted with Marmite are nos madeleines, we'un's grits, that which unites us.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Very good, but of course fundamentally flawed. I refer you to the following erudite article,

"Deconstructing Diasporas: Networks and Identities among the Irish in Buffalo and Toronto 1870-1910, Immigrants and Minorities, 23, 359-398. Reprinted in Enda Delaney and Donald M. MacRaild (eds.), Irish Migration, Networks and Ethnic Identities Since 1750 (London and New York: Routledge, 2007), 210-249. ..."

...which, alas, appears to be unavailable online.

I wonder why?

Originally Posted by dbd33

Have you a hardcopy to hand?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Of course. I'm never without one.

Originally Posted by dbd33

Could you then please reproduce a passage demonstrating that Oink's citation is correct in its assertion that the Irish attachment to food from home is unique? I don't think that's a sustainable argument at all.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

"T'Oirish is singularly attached to tatters, paddy. Every ****er knows that."

Page 23, paragraph 4. (ibid).

Originally Posted by dbd33

Yeah but I've some jeezly love for me salt beef, bye. Food from home, everyone wants it. The thesis isn't flawed in suggesting that the Irish like mashed stuff but in claiming that there's anything special about that. Presumably geordies crave coal or coke or whatever it is that passes for grub up there. The rest of the English want their curries and kebabs.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Pease pudding and stottie cakes.

Can't stand them myself.

Originally Posted by dbd33

Never had pease pudding until I was in Newfoundland. It was better than "fish 'n brewis".

Originally Posted by dbd33

Never had pease pudding until I was in Newfoundland. It was better than "fish 'n brewis".

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat

Fish and Brewis, Cod Tongues, Bologna, Seal Flipper pie. All culinary parts of the Newfoundland diaspora that are best avoided. So's salt fish and salt beef for that matter.

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat

Fish and Brewis, Cod Tongues, Bologna, Seal Flipper pie. All culinary parts of the Newfoundland diaspora that are best avoided. So's salt fish and salt beef for that matter.