Quite a few to be honest with you - though that may refelct the fact that I move in slightly more "educated" circles than the norm. Most of my friends/colleagues are embarrasingly fluent in English and it can sometimes be quite hard to get them to speak French - it is quite common for people here to automatically switch into English out of politeness.

Are they doing so for the sake of Unity or for their own benefit? How many in the Saguenay region are unilingual French? A very high percentage!

Them's fightin' words ..........

I take the Quebecois as I find them, and they are fine people.

The answer to your question is - probably a considerably higher percentage of people in the Saguenay speak English than in equivalently out of the way corners of Alberta or Manitoba. On the whole, people here have to speak some English, certainly in the cities of Quebec and Montreal it is an imperative. Most of the anglophones, these days, speak good french too. We respect each other.

I must say that I don't understand the "English for All" attitudes of the west. This is Canada we are talking about. A good 24-25% of the inhabitants speak French as their mother tongue. Their ancestors got here first, remember. They are surrounded by a sea of English, they can't switch on their TVs or radios without being bombarded by it and it is all credit to them that they have managed to maintain their culture so well and so long - but the rest of us should cut them some slack. Our (English) culture is not threatened while theirs is. Try to empathise a little.

I also don't understand the references in earlier posts to the US - different country, different traditions, different second language (Spanish), different problems. Canada shares a continent with the US but is as different as chalk and cheese (thank God).

sorry - typo in the last posting - I should of course have said :

The answer to your question is - probably a considerably higher percentage of people in the Saguenay speak English than in equivalently out of the way corners of Alberta or Manitoba SPEAK FRENCH

Well with 300 million English speakers in North America, I would certainly hope so! Although your comparison may not work in the case of Manitoba.

There is no significant "English for All" mentality in western Canada as it applies to Quebec. That was a misrepresentation on your part. No one is advocating that the Quebecors should lose their French language. We just don't feel that they should deny the linguistic rights of others in an attempt to preserve it. In other words, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms ought to be respected right across Canada.

By the way, there is also a higher percentage of Inuit that speak French, than the percentage of Quebeckers who speak Inukitut. The reason should be intuitive; it's because the Inuit are the smaller group. Just like the French in Canada vis-a-vis the English speakers in North America. Unilingual Francophones have severely restricted their horizons on this continent, whereas that isn't the case with unilingual Anglophones. But of course, they expect us to learn French - mainly for their benefit. When Quebeckers learn English, they are doing it for their own benefit.

The French did not discover Canada. Canada was founded in 1867 - remember! The Aboriginals were here first, remember! And the French were defeated on the Plains of Abraham by the British - remember!

"Cut them some slack" you say? Do you have any idea how many Anglophones have been all but forced out of Quebec since 1970? Answer - hundreds of thousands.

Let the numbers speak for themselves - the latest figures I have seen are that 7% of anglophones are bilingual in french while 34% of francophones are bilingual in English.

Anyway - why wouldn't anglos want to learn French? Apart from the fact that it ishould be part of being Canadian (bilingual country - remember) you just miss so much by not being able to share the culture.

Anyway, everyone speaks hockey. Common culture.

Canada in fact is not a bilingual country - your stats prove my point. The Federal Government is, along with the Provincial Government in New Brunswick.

The Quebec mentality is for "French only" in Quebec, and bilingualism in the rest of the country.

We do "learn French", but we don't retain it because we have no need to do so. The few who do retain French get to use it about once every 10 years when they go to Quebec for a 3 day vacation - big deal.

Hmmm - some political realities are called for here -

1. The political entity that is today's Canada was foiunded in 1867 but the European colonisation began with the French - Champlain, cartier et al.

2. The fact that our ancestrors defeated the French in battle was the root of the problem. We then handed them over to the iron control of the Catholic church in return for "guaranteed" peace. The pope's men kept them poor and ignorant for generations (with notable exceptions of course) while the anglos ran the economy - there was a glass ceiling for most francophones. The church ran the schools, handed out the welfare cheques, controlled life. It took the quiet revolution a generation ago to get away from this. If our ancestors had been treated like that we';d have been mad as hell ..... I don't find it surprising that they want to promote their culture a bit.

3. "Anglophones forced out of Quebec" ...... nobody was "forced" out, quite a few didn't like the fact that the (white) niggers were getting uppity and so cut and ran. Most, however, stayed, learned French and have a good life. The economy is booming.

Anyway, my point was that Canada is legally a bilingual country, that a quarter of the population have French as their maternal language, that more francophones can function in English than anglophones (outside Quebec) can function in French and that it just makes life that much richer for us all if we understand each other just a little instead of talking about them and us. If - and this is a democracy - a majority do not want the country to be bilingual then elect a government that will change the fact but it would seem that most people do like things as they are more or less.

You say somewhere that "The Quebec mentality is for "French only" in Quebec, and bilingualism in the rest of the country" - but you forget that this is the policy that maintains the language and stops it being swamped by ours. It is terribly easy, when in the dominant position, to be arrogant and expect others to just roll over but in Quebec french is and has to be the dominant language just as in the US and Britain things work in English and in Germany in German etc. Having said that, there is never, ever, a problem getting service in English (in shops, governmeent offices, hospitals etc) if you need it - I know, I live here.

I guess all this is getting off the theme of the thread somewhat but it's as well for intending immigrants to know the facts.

First of all, I would ask you not to misquote me. I didn’t say that Anglophones were forced out Quebec, I said that they were all but forced out, since their human rights were not being respected. This was through the denial of linguistic rights, and a discriminatory “French� first policy. The Quebecois wanted to be “the masters of their own house�.

Since the "Quiet Revolution" of the 1960s in Quebec, the province has taken a series of measures to "protect" the French language:

1) Since then, we have witnessed an incredible shift in the province, with nothing more than a reversal of power and linguistic balance. Whereas the language of business was once primarily English, it is now almost entirely French. Where Francophones once found it difficult to obtain services in their language, it is now nearly impossible to obtain services in English.
Prior to Bill 101, several initiatives were taken to promote the use of French, without impeding on the rights of the English. However, it wasn’t long before laws meant to slowly weed out the use of all English were enacted.

2) In 1974, Bill 22 was passed, making French the only official language of Quebec, even though the official languages in all of Canada were English and French. This law forced immigrants to Quebec to attend a French speaking school, regardless of the language of their country of origin.

3) August 26, 1977 saw the birth of Bill 101, an openly discriminatory law enacted by the Province’s first separatist government, which took away the right to freedom of speech from its citizens. Under the law, tighter restrictions on the use of English were introduced, as well as access to English schools. It became against the law to produce any commercial sign that wasn’t in French-only, and the law aimed to make French the language of the workplace.
The separatist government at the time knew very well that this new law violated the Canadian constitution, and in an earlier draft of the Bill (then known as Bill 1), they attempted to include a clause exempting it from the Quebec Charter of Human Rights. Few were willing to support a bill that deliberately and pointedly violated the constitution, and so the bill was dropped, only to re-appear later on as Bill 101 with all but the exemption making the law above the Charter still intact. One year after its passing, the constitutionality of the law was challenged in the Superior Court after a Quebec businessman refused to remove an English-only sign from his store. Six years later, five businesses joined in the challenge, but it wasn’t until 1986 that the Quebec Court of Appeals ruled in their favor.
The Quebec government appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada, who ruled in 1988 that the law was indeed in violation of the guarantee of freedom of expression.

4) The government immediately invoked the notwithstanding clause, a clause within the Canadian constitution that allows the use of unconstitutional laws for a period of 5 years. This period saw the birth of a new law, Bill 178, which allowed the use of some bilingual signs inside stores, but still forbade them outside. In 1993, a report that Bill 178 violated the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was released by a United Nations human-rights committee.

5)Two months later, the Quebec Government introduced new legislation allowing bilingual signs both inside and outside of businesses as long as the French was predominant. Bill 86 was scoffed at by separatists, but welcomed as a step in the right direction by Anglophones and Francophones alike.

6) The following year, a new separatist government was elected on the promise to abolish Bill 86, and make unilingual signs the law once more. However, abolishment was postponed until after the referendum, when the government decided to keep the law after all, provided that other language laws were toughened up instead.

7) 1996 saw the re-introduction of the Language Police, government officials hired to seek out language violations and hand out fines and warnings for using the "wrong" language. The organization, officially called the Office de la Langue Francaise, has driven the wedge between Quebec’s Francophones and Anglophones even deeper with its petty enforcement of the law, seeking out technicalities and often measuring the size of lettering to make sure that French is no less than twice the size of English.


Anglophones across Canada don’t have any problem with the Quebecois wanting to retain their culture/language. We just don’t want them to do so by violating the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or by violating International Covenants on human rights. I don’t think that it’s fair to characterize an entire group as “arrogant� simply because they want their human rights to be respected – clearly you do.

To purport that Anglophones left Quebec because they were racists is beyond stupidity. They left because they couldn’t stand living in a place where their human rights were being trampled on.

Yes, immigrants certainly need to familiarize themselves with the facts! It's something you ought to do.

Here is my citizenship test passed !

Actually I would love to live in Quebec! Particularly Montreal. It is our plan to live in TO a while, scrub up our French a bit and then move.
The reason I have a preference for Quebec, is the same reason I have a preference for NS and Atlantic Canada. I see it as being more European and closer to European Values. The whole Alberta/American thing just doesn't attract me in the least. I prefer street cafe's and restaurants to NASCAR rallies and rodeos!

Are you sure you are a twin brother i never had? Montreal is a wicked place, and we are looking forward to going there again for the easter holiday. A girl that works with my wife told her yesterday we can stay in their new house they just bought while they are away around that time.

What you said about Quebec is true, and do you know its the only province where you can buy a beer/wine from the corner store just like in blighty. Am not a drinker or smoker myself, but i just love the way they do things. They were the first to recognise our drivers licence along with the previous experience.

No matter what people say about them, i love the place and can't wait to get there again. Their festivals are also wicked things to enjoy. European values is something that means a lot to me.

cheers

I just generally prefer the European attitude to everything. It's more sophisticated and tollerant. As opposed to the redneckery and hickishness in places like Alberta and Texas!
(Apologies to anyone from Alberta or Texas, or any hicks/rednecks out there! )
Yeh, Montreal looks great! It even has an underground like Paris with the rubber tyres!

Quebec City is particularly nice looking.

You have a preference for Quebec because it is closer to European values? Doesn't Europe abide by the UN conventions on Human Rights?

Alberta redneck? Just where do you get your information, from those who support Bill 101 or what?

Immigrate to Quebec if you desire, but open your eyes first.

P.S. Watch out for the language police while you are there.