c.kirk

The Canadian government has always had to shoulder the west through its bust times,and this being paid for mostly by Ontario tax payers. This has been the case so many times in its short history. That is how they can operate with no sales tax!

oceanMDX

Sorry, but that simply isn't the case. The only province that doesn't have a provincial sales tax is Alberta. The last time they received a penny from equalization payments was in 1964. Alberta pays billions of dollars a year more in taxes to Ottawa than it receives from the Federal Government.

If I were an Ontarian, I'd be a little careful about boasting, because Ontario isn't all that far away from qualifying for those equalization payments itself. Alberta is the only province that is no where near qualifying for them. I just checked the facts on this the other day.

iaink

Well, this was an interesting post, but seems to have degenerated into a political history lesson:lecture:

oceanMDX

It's something that newcomers need to familiarize themselves with if they want to have informed, intelligent opinions.

iaink

I think the minute detail may be a bit above and beyond the call of duty for an immigrant. My suspicion is that anyone new to canada reading the debate will learn one thing only, and that is there is a fair amount of animosity between East and West, and thats before you throw Quebec into the mix.

My suspicion is that the truth is somewhere between. Alberta has great natural resources, which help to keep taxes low. Ontario is a little jealous of this, but has industry to keep it going. Thats all an immigrant would need to know isnt it?

It would be nice to get back on topic here. What, apart from low taxes, is great about the way of life in Alberta that it would attract someone there instead of say Vancouver, or in my case my little backwater of Ontario. Tell us about the environment, the school system, average property costs, how friendly albertans are...whatever.... Thats the interesting stuff here, not the details of what tax went where and when and why....

My 2c

Iain

oceanMDX

Okay Iain, I trust this interests you:

People make a big mistake when they conclude that the weather of Vancouver is better than Calgary - it isn't.

In the summer- Vancouver is somewhat cooler than Calgary, and Calgary has more sunshine.

In the winter- Vancouver is drizzly and overcast. That can be depressing for some people. Calgary's winter temperatures are the most variable in the world. It can go down to -35 C, then to +20 within a couple of days in Calgary. This phenomenon occurs when a "Chinook" rolls into southern Alberta. This is a dry, warm wind that comes in from the southwest over the Rocky Mountains. To be sure, Calgary gets numerous snowfalls, but the snow will normally melt within a week or two because of a Chinook. After the snow has melted, the Calgary area looks rather dry and brown, until the rains come in the spring and early summer to green things up. Vancouver remains green year-round.

Calgary has some of the lowest property taxes in the country.

Western Canada has better air quality than southern Ontario, which is only fair, at best, especially in the summer.

About 100 km downstream from Calgary, the Bow River has one of the best Rainbow Trout fisheries in the world.

Vancouver has a higher crime rate than Calgary.

Vancouver is about twice the size of Calgary, and is much more cosmopolitan. The price of housing in Vancouver is about double what it is in Calgary.


A British Expat, who was one of my employees at the time, once told me about one of his experiences with a rural Albertan ( in a tiny village about 30 km east of Edmonton). This expat had mentioned to a neighbor that his car wasn't working very well. So this neighbor (a guy he hardly knew) told him that he was going away for a few weeks and wasn't going to need his car during that time. So he gave the expat the keys and told him he could use the car until he got back. All the guy wanted for the use of his car from the expat was to replace any gas that he burned. It was funny watching him tell me this story, he had a shocked smile on his face as he told it. He still could hardly believe it.

Regarding the weather, check this out:

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/wea...s/CABC0308.htm

Enter a city, then select "statistics" on the right (after the page loads) for lots of information so you can compare different locales.

glasnidouglas

... Pull the other one mate, its got bells on.

Interested

I moved to Toronto. I didn't exactly choose it as my long term boyf lived here. Although If he'd told me he lived in Regina, I don't think I'd have moved there!

I'm a city girl through and through. I couldn't handle living somewhere isolated. Although I do enjoy getting away from it all once in a while!

I would love to try out Montreal, but again I'm worried cos I don't speak francais.

Int.

quebirder

Do it - Montreal is a great place, one of the civilised cities on this continent.

Do NOT let a lack of facility in French put you off and make you miss all the good stuff. Although Quebec as a province is overwhelmingly francophone the city of Montreal is as bilingual/multicultural as any place could be and most people you will need to interact with will be able to speak to you in English. In addition, several of the suburbs are overwhelmingly anglophone so you can ease yourself into life here as you aquire the French.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been told by francophones that what ticks them off is CANADIANS who can't handle even rudimentary French (no excuse) whereas people from other countries like the UK - well, why would you have learned French before coming here? Nice to see you, hope you are having a good time, how can I help?

The downside to living here is that most jobs worth having do require you to have some ability to speak both languages - they usually ask for biligual facility in adverts but the degree of fluency you need may not necessarily be all that great in practice.

Great place - come and visit.

iaink

Because it is a requirement to take a second language course in nearly every school in the UK, and in nearly every school French is the "basic" second language offered, so nearly every UK person coming to canada has had some exposure to at least basic French for a year or two.

I thought this was a requirement in the canadian school system as well? I am shocked if its not.

I would not let a lack of French put me off trying Montreal. A friend of mine recently went on a Church mission to Cuba, without knowing any Spanish, and after a week of immersion in the local community was able to understand some basic sentences already, in fact his wife told him after he came back that he was singing in his sleep..in spanish!

Also for new immigrants (and not so new? not sure of this) there are government subsidised language training courses, like LINC, which would be worth checking out.

Iain

oceanMDX

Although there is no such thing as the "Canadian school system" per se, since education comes under provincial jurisdiction, French is pretty much a required part of the curriculum across the country.

With Canada being such a large country, we have the problem that you can take French in school, and never have a chance to use it with the French-speaking parts of the country so far away. In England, a trip on the chunnel, and you are in France.

mickj

Not forgetting Deutsche of course. Most kids in the UK take this too, or both. My nieces take take Deutsche, and they have been on school trips to Austria and Germany, as part of the exchange program.

To open more doors for one's self now in Europe, its a good idea to be multilingual, as you can just pack up and go on the continent and get a job.

my 2 pennies

quebirder

French is taught abysmally in UK schools - I was a case in point and it took living in Montreal to sort the language out for me.

However, my experience is that people in Quebec really don't expect immigrants to arrive knowing the language (though they are as chuffed as anything if you can) but they really, really do not have a lot of time for Canadians from other provinces who can't handle it. Yes, it is correct that, as some one has pointed out, if you don't live in a French part of the country you don't meet tha language on the street or are necessarily able to immerse yourself in it but it is taught in the schools and the French language arm of the CBC (Radio-Canada) is available everywhere, French newspapers, magazines and films are easy to come by etc etc - in other words if you were born here then you really ought to have better than a smattering of the other official language. not doing so shows disrespect for the almost 25% of the nation who are francophone. Right or wrong, that's what my friends and colleagues ALL tell me.

Courses - In Quebec there are full time government sponsored immersions courses in french for landed immigranbts but not for people on work permits or for full citizens. These courses are not only very good but they also pay you a "salary" and expenses to take them.

iaink

Me too

It is great that there is hope for us all. Montreal is a fantastic place, but i suspect more than a few are put of by the Language issue. Could just be fear of the unknown. Many folks select Canada as a destination precisely because they dont have to learn a new language to live here.

BTW, how many of the monoglot francophones you know are reading english language papers and watching english language programming in the name of Federal unity? I suspect it is about the same percentage as monoglot anglos trying to learn french...not that many.

Of course, this doesnt mean you are not perfectly right. I am always jealous and amazed the way my displaced quebecois frends can slip so easily back and forth between languages in mid conversation, so maybe I should make an effort to absorb some more of the French around me in Ontario, but it will always be hard to convince those further west that they are missing out on a fabulous opportunity for cultural enlightenment, as most of the Francophones seem so far away.

It seems like a missed oportunity not to have the same language learning resources open to all residents, regardless of whether they ae learning English or French, PRs, citizens, whatever.

Iain

oceanMDX

Many aspects of the culture in North America (excluding Mexico) are not unique to either Canada or the USA. In other words, there is not a US culture, nor is there a Canadian culture, there actually is a US/Canadian culture in so many areas. Canadians have made a huge contribution to “American� culture. Many of the singers, actors, and comedians in the US are Canadian. We watch “American� news stations with Canadian talking heads, and see “American� films that were filmed in Canada. We play each other in the same hockey, basketball and baseball leagues, and so on. The greatly predominant language in this US/Canadian culture is English. The culture of over 300 million people in North America is based in English. So for 8 million French speakers to expect someone in Victoria, Calgary, or even Kitchener to retain any significant knowledge of French is a little unreasonable. I think they are overestimating the importance of their language in our lives – Canada is too large for most people to be bilingual. To consider Canadians living outside of Quebec to be rude because they don’t speak French when they visit Quebec is rather rude in itself. While it is true that French is one of Canada’s official languages, it was only made an official language to facilitate the provision of Federal Government services to French-speakers. In no way, does a lack of the ability to speak French in Canada connote that one is somehow deficient with respect to their citizenship. I’ll bet that your native Montreal friends didn’t say anything about how rude it was for a unilingual Francophone to venture beyond Quebec without a reasonable ability in English. It’s amusing to see how willing they are to accept subsidies from these “rude� Anglos to keep their culture/language and province of Quebec afloat.:lecture: