taradem

Hi everyone,
I am in the mood for a rant and wondered whether you might lend a sympathetic ear??

We are moving to Oakville with my husbands company next week. We are 'lucky' that the company has provided us with a lawyer to assist in completing the paperwork for work permits and permanent visas. The whole process started with a job offer 10 weeks ago and in the meantime I have had to endure numerous vague and condescending emails from the lawyer (I don't think anyone can use a phone these days!!) I really feel that she thinks we are complete idiots unable to follow even simple instructions. Our work permit application didn't go in until 2 weeks ago and it got returned last week because the lawyer has put in the wrong fee! In desperation I have used the immigration website and found out all the information myself ............. miraculously enough it doesn't appear to be as complicated as she is making out!
I hate to think how much she is being paid for her 'help'.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or are we just unlucky??
Thanks (rant over)
Tara x

dbd33

That's usual for lawyers. People think of them as being crooks but I suspect that's not generally true, they're just not very organized and, since they bill a captive market based on time spent, they're not driven to do anything well. People get incensed when legal bills bankrupt them but I don't think the lawyers usually set out to hurt their clients, they just do it by accident.

taradem

I'm sure you're right. I certainly wouldn't want to call anyone a crook, I think you have hit the nail on the head with not being very organised! If she had just sent me a complete list at the start of what she required, by when, then she probably wouldn't me driving me so mad. Still no excuse for the extremely poor communication though - ho hum!

dbd33

Be glad you have one who is familiar with a computer. Very often they insist on using actual snail mail letters typed by a secretary (yes, in 2006) so you get confusing and inaccurate instructions weeks after you asked for them. Ah, the wonders of the closed shop.

taradem

REALLY??? Maybe ours is not as bad as I thought!

dbd33

Really. It's just astonishing. The law society has a website for complaints with radio buttons for "lawyer lost interest and wandered off" and "lawyer robbed me blind" because these complaints are so common. I chuckle at people who complain about bent politicians; look at their backgrounds, they were mainly lawyers, of course they're neither decent nor reputable.

taradem

I just find it so frustrating that people who are supposed to be providing a service can behave in this way! I guess that we are not confident to withold payment in the same way that we might with any other service provider. You don't seem to have much weight if you're not paying the bill either.

sans

Hi there
Your not on your own, we too have bad vibes with emigration lawyers. I will try and cut this as short as poss, we started are journey 3 yrs ago. We needed 75 points and had 74, we where told the only way we could get that extra point was to learn french or have a guaranteed job offer, which we were also told we had no chance of getting. So after ringing everyone in the phone book to do with immigration, and visiting the emigrate show, and still drawing a blank. We rang an emigration lawyer in canada, who told us he could get us in, in 10 mths, on a guaranteed future job offer. Three weeks after we signed up with the lawyer the points dropped to 67 . 10 mths later they had filled out the application forms, then he decided we did,nt need a job offer, because we had enough points. So 3 yrs down the line it has cost us over £3000, Jan06 we had to replace kids birth certificates cos the ones that were sent was,nt the full ones, the lawyer had supposedly checked everything, so their was no hold ups.New police checks cos the 1st ones had ran out . But hey weave just had medicals which is great been waiting hopefully for PR to come through and the kids passports run out end of august So now panicking cos we got to get them renewed. Sorry this was the short version, wouldn't recommend using one.
Hope you have more luck.

dbd33

I think British people tend to hold lawyers in unreasonable respect. There's no reason to think a randomly chosen lawyer in Canada (the only place I have very much experience of them) is any more or less honest or competent than a randomly chosen house painter or hairdresser. An ordinary person actually has a better chance of finding a decent hairdresser because people are open about being shaved bald whereas they're reluctant to come out and say xyz lawyer lied to them.

Britjo67

I can't speak for Canadian Lawyers, but as far as British solicitors are concerned they are strictly regulated by the Law Society and many solicitors get 'struck off' for a variety of reasons, although I believe the most common reason is fraud. In the UK if someone is unhappy with their solicitor they have options. From the very first letter they are sent by their appointed solicitor they are told that there is a complaints procedure. They are informed of the complaints procedure at the firm, and told that if they don't feel they can broach the subject with the solicitor in question they are given a name of a senior partner in the firm who will deal with the complaint. If the client still feels unhappy about it they are able to then raise a grievance with the Consumer Complaints Service, an independent investigatory body attached to the Law Society. The CCS is the body which decides which solicitors are to be 'struck off' following lengthy and thorough investigation into the complaint made by the client.

Given the similarities in legal systems I would have thought there would be a similar method for dealing with complaints in Canada. If you have a grievance, contact the firm and complain, don't sit back and brood on the incompetence of your lawyer. Tara, you are paying for her service (or your husband's company is) and if it isn't up to standard something needs to be done.

Calgal

Why not? When we figured out our immigration lawyer was getting paid a lot of money for not doing much at all, we didn't pay the final $3000 dollars they asked for. They had part payment already, but we told them to go whistle for the rest! It seems they did

Now our accountant is about to get the same message - and a potentially very large claim for compensation/cost's etc on top! Bloody so-called 'experts'

dbd33

The means of complaint in Ontario is through the Law Society : http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/ but it's not of any help as you're just complaining to one lawyer about another. The second lawyer has no reason to want to sanction the first, especially not for something that is common practice such as overbilling or giving inaccurate advice.

I'm not kidding about the point and click facility for the standard complaints which are:

Delay
Failing to answer letters and telephone calls
Refusing to return your files, papers
Not accounting for your money
Not keeping you informed of progress on your case
Giving bad advice or failing to complete work properly
Not following instructions

I roared when I first saw, "Not accounting for your money". What they do in Ontario is to take a few thousand dollars in retainer and, if you ask how much is left, they say none. It's nigh on impossible to get any sort of accounting from a lawyer, honest or not.

I think it fair to say that someone who has a legal qualification in Ontario should be viewed as personally less trustworthy than a random member of the public; law is a sleazy business and it drags people down. If one can settle any sort of dispute without resorting to lawyers, say by talmudic or sharia law, that's the better option.

dbd33

The immigration lawyer acting for my OH told us that he had made application for police clearances and that he was waiting on Scotland Yard. I checked on this and found that he hadn't applied. I didn't want to get into a dispute with him as that would just mean forfeiting his fee and starting again so I wrote a gentle reminder to him to which he replied that they were terribly slow in England and that he would chase them. He then made the initial application.

I think this is typical of dealing with a lawyer. It's important that the client use an independent means to track the lawyer's activities, be it immigration, divorce, hosue purchase or whatever, as the lawyer's interest is not the same as the client's and the lawyer may tell the client anything at all. What I find unfortunate is that lawyers have a monopoly on all sorts of activities and yet, in order to track the lawyer, the client has to learn what the lawyer's supposed to be doing. What a racket!

dbd33

Here's a fun legal site:

http://www.canlaw.com/lawyers/lsont.htm

taradem

I'm not one to moan without trying to sort it out first ......... unfortunately our lawyer seems to not really care what I say. I have tried to offer feedback on her service but she really doesn't seem bothered! I'm not in any position to withold fees so all I can do is keep on her case and feedback to the company how much extra stress it is causing. Bit of a rock and a hard place although on a positive note I know which firm not to appoint for my personal affairs!!