Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Sep 1st 2007, 12:49 am
#16
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
In Mandimoo's defense, her and her family had lived overseas before and so they were aware of the emotions that are involved with moving overseas. Calgary is an expensive place to live at the moment, so I dont think homesickness was the only reason to go home so soon.
As for other people that go back so quickly, I just think its a case that for some they reach there limits. No one really prepares you for what it like until you emigrate. No amount of reccie trips gives you the knowledge of what it feels like to move lock, stock and barrel to another country. For some people its just to much and that's that. Many people get caught up in the idealistic fairy tale story of living in Canada and when it boils down to it, as many have said before, "same shit different bucket". I think many think all there problems will just disappear, when really its not the place that the problem, its the individual. Some are just not happy where ever they are.
As for other people that go back so quickly, I just think its a case that for some they reach there limits. No one really prepares you for what it like until you emigrate. No amount of reccie trips gives you the knowledge of what it feels like to move lock, stock and barrel to another country. For some people its just to much and that's that. Many people get caught up in the idealistic fairy tale story of living in Canada and when it boils down to it, as many have said before, "same shit different bucket". I think many think all there problems will just disappear, when really its not the place that the problem, its the individual. Some are just not happy where ever they are.
Last edited by Mountain Girl; Sep 1st 2007 at 12:53 am.
Sep 1st 2007, 1:25 am
#17
little snowy owl
Joined: Nov 2004
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
I know a very happy family who have been here 8-9 years now I think. The guy said that when they came here they really struggled financially and in every other way for a year or two, and that if they could possibly have gone back they would have, several times over, in their first year!
I understand the reasoning behind a fall-back plan, but I do kinda think you are setting yourself up to fail if you say you can always go back if you don't like it. It's such a huge decision. Life-changing, definitely. To me, that's almost like saying "let's get married ..... if we don't like it we can always get a divorce!" I feel that you have to have some sense of it being at least for the long term, if not for ever.
When we came I was so anxious, as I was definitely the prime mover. I'd been fairly unhappy for a while back in UK and made my poor OH's life miserable!
I was so worried that he agreed that we'd go, that it was just to "keep me happy". I asked him and asked him if this was so, and then didn't believe him when he denied it!
I think that it was only after he'd been back on a trip to the UK this year and returned saying he had not really enjoyed the trip that much, that it had felt weird to be a visitor and he was so glad to be home again. Then I really felt that he, like me, believes that this is the best place for us, individually and as a family.
We are coming up to our second Canniversary, 3rd September!
I understand the reasoning behind a fall-back plan, but I do kinda think you are setting yourself up to fail if you say you can always go back if you don't like it. It's such a huge decision. Life-changing, definitely. To me, that's almost like saying "let's get married ..... if we don't like it we can always get a divorce!" I feel that you have to have some sense of it being at least for the long term, if not for ever.
When we came I was so anxious, as I was definitely the prime mover. I'd been fairly unhappy for a while back in UK and made my poor OH's life miserable!
I was so worried that he agreed that we'd go, that it was just to "keep me happy". I asked him and asked him if this was so, and then didn't believe him when he denied it!
I think that it was only after he'd been back on a trip to the UK this year and returned saying he had not really enjoyed the trip that much, that it had felt weird to be a visitor and he was so glad to be home again. Then I really felt that he, like me, believes that this is the best place for us, individually and as a family.
We are coming up to our second Canniversary, 3rd September!
Sep 1st 2007, 2:32 am
#19
Now on Vancouver Island
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
It's hard to find the right balance between being supportive towards people on the one hand and intervening and warning them when it looks to you as if they're about to jump off a cliff.
When it has seemed to me that new posters have been naive, I have jumped in and told them it would be bonkers to do what they have been contemplating. I know I've offended some of them. For the most part I haven't minded, because I would have felt even more guilty if I hadn't pointed out to them a risk that seemed obvious to me but of which they evidently were ignorant.
However, once someone has already decided to do something, and it's a day or two before the moving van is arriving, as was the case when Mandi made her announcement, I don't see what is to be gained from cr@pping on them at that point. In fact I think that's one of the times when they need support the most.
When it has seemed to me that new posters have been naive, I have jumped in and told them it would be bonkers to do what they have been contemplating. I know I've offended some of them. For the most part I haven't minded, because I would have felt even more guilty if I hadn't pointed out to them a risk that seemed obvious to me but of which they evidently were ignorant.
However, once someone has already decided to do something, and it's a day or two before the moving van is arriving, as was the case when Mandi made her announcement, I don't see what is to be gained from cr@pping on them at that point. In fact I think that's one of the times when they need support the most.
Sep 1st 2007, 2:57 am
#20
little snowy owl
Joined: Nov 2004
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
..... once someone has already decided to do something, and it's a day or two before the moving van is arriving, as was the case when Mandi made her announcement, I don't see what is to be gained from cr@pping on them at that point. In fact I think that's one of the times when they need support the most.
Sep 1st 2007, 3:45 am
#22
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
In a weird way i am glad they have gone, a huge weight has been lifted from our family spending so many weeks tip-toeing around trying not to upset anyone. I am happy again and pleased with what we've achieved here. We are so much more better off here than we were at home which was our goal and in that i am proud.
We have been in BC for 3 months now and have small kids. We ultimately wanted a different lifestyle to what we had in the UK, different opportunities, scenery etc and we have found it here. Yes, we miss some of the familiar things we had in the UK and there are so many changes to adjust to - I encounter new challenges daily! We've sold up, left everything behind and started again here and are putting 100% effort into making it a success - if in a couple of years we arent happy, well at least we tried. I think its easier as both hubby and I were as committed as each other to the move. 5 year old says he lives in the best country in the world now, but 3 year old says its rubbish and wants to go home! You cant please em all hey!!!
Good luck to everyone making, planning or have made the move - give it your best shot.
Last edited by NikkiNu; Sep 1st 2007 at 3:49 am.
Sep 1st 2007, 4:29 am
#23
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Originally Posted by Morwenna
I wasn't getting at Mandi at all though.
I'm just sad about the way things turned out and regret that we were perhaps not able to have supported them as well as we might have.
Come to think of it, several posters who scold another poster probably feel sad, or at least disappointed, too.
I remember when my kids had survived dangerous behaviour, like running out into the street. When it was over, my heart was racing. I was terrified that they could have been killed or maimed. But it came out in the form of anger, and I yelled at them. I mean I didn't just yell at them to teach them a lesson, so they wouldn't do the same thing again. I yelled at them because I was venting my overwhelming emotions.
Mandi's thread probably was a challenge for several of us -- Mandi herself, those of us who "shouted" at her, those of us who made warm, fuzzy noises, and those of us who were at various points in between.
So I say let's have a group hug and try again tomorrow (it's 10.30 p.m. in Calgary, but I guess it's already "tomorrow" in the UK
).
Sep 1st 2007, 4:38 am
#24
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Mandi's thread probably was a challenge for several of us -- Mandi herself, those of us who "shouted" at her, those of us who made warm, fuzzy noises, and those of us who were at various points in between.
So I say let's have a group hug and try again tomorrow (it's 10.30 p.m. in Calgary, but I guess it's already "tomorrow" in the UK ).
[/quote]
Totally agree. Must've been a tough call to make to go back. I had my wobbly moments in the three months we've been here, but I never seriously considered going back.
I'm sure most people on the site who've been through the move feel for Mandi and her family, not least because they've got another big upheaval to cope with now.
So I say let's have a group hug and try again tomorrow (it's 10.30 p.m. in Calgary, but I guess it's already "tomorrow" in the UK
).[/quote]Totally agree. Must've been a tough call to make to go back. I had my wobbly moments in the three months we've been here, but I never seriously considered going back.
I'm sure most people on the site who've been through the move feel for Mandi and her family, not least because they've got another big upheaval to cope with now.
Sep 1st 2007, 5:43 am
#25
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Wow - this thread has really provoked some outpourings!
I'm recent to the Canada forum - have been mostly on the NZ forum: I'm a Brit who after 3 years in Canada has come to NZ with her Canadian/ Kiwi beloved. And I have 2 points of view:
When I moved to Canada, it felt good. I had all the homesickness and suchlike; it was still hard and I ended up in Saskatchewan which isn't everybody's idea of a great time! However I just started from the fact that it "felt right" and worked hard to make it work out. When I got the heebie jeebies I turned to friends for comfort, and sometimes just boo hooed and got over it by myself. I was in a bad position in a terrible marriage which I left soon after arriving. In that instance, the hubs was wrong and the country was right - so I ditched the first and stuck with the second!
Now I've been in NZ for 2 whole months, and like some people posting on ths and Mandi's thread, I am simply ready to get a plane ticket home (to Canada or UK - I don't really mind) and write it off as a very expensive mistake. I did NOT expect this AT ALL - I have done emigrating once already and it was fine and I was happy! I am all for blooming where you are planted and giving it a good go and even lectured my partner on giving things at least a year. Now I'm here I am the one who wants to just give up.
Some people are saying Mandi didn't give it enough time. I think sometimes you just know. Anyone read "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell? This is the sort of life-changing decision that can, according to that theory, be made in a "blink" - that is, this decision just comes from that place in you where all your life experience and lessons gather up and give you the answer easily.
Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't. I'm evidence of that - same situation, different outcome (this time, the hubs is the right choice and the country's wrong!) You have to give it a go, but also know when to stop banging your head against the wall.
I met a Brit woman here the other day who's been in NZ for 34 years. I asked her about homesickness and she said she stopped wishing she could go home...after 18 years. Sorry - some of us don't have that long! Good on you Mandi for giving it a go, and also for knowing when to give it a stop. Best of luck.
I'm recent to the Canada forum - have been mostly on the NZ forum: I'm a Brit who after 3 years in Canada has come to NZ with her Canadian/ Kiwi beloved. And I have 2 points of view:
When I moved to Canada, it felt good. I had all the homesickness and suchlike; it was still hard and I ended up in Saskatchewan which isn't everybody's idea of a great time! However I just started from the fact that it "felt right" and worked hard to make it work out. When I got the heebie jeebies I turned to friends for comfort, and sometimes just boo hooed and got over it by myself. I was in a bad position in a terrible marriage which I left soon after arriving. In that instance, the hubs was wrong and the country was right - so I ditched the first and stuck with the second!
Now I've been in NZ for 2 whole months, and like some people posting on ths and Mandi's thread, I am simply ready to get a plane ticket home (to Canada or UK - I don't really mind) and write it off as a very expensive mistake. I did NOT expect this AT ALL - I have done emigrating once already and it was fine and I was happy! I am all for blooming where you are planted and giving it a good go and even lectured my partner on giving things at least a year. Now I'm here I am the one who wants to just give up.
Some people are saying Mandi didn't give it enough time. I think sometimes you just know. Anyone read "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell? This is the sort of life-changing decision that can, according to that theory, be made in a "blink" - that is, this decision just comes from that place in you where all your life experience and lessons gather up and give you the answer easily.
Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't. I'm evidence of that - same situation, different outcome (this time, the hubs is the right choice and the country's wrong!) You have to give it a go, but also know when to stop banging your head against the wall.
I met a Brit woman here the other day who's been in NZ for 34 years. I asked her about homesickness and she said she stopped wishing she could go home...after 18 years. Sorry - some of us don't have that long! Good on you Mandi for giving it a go, and also for knowing when to give it a stop. Best of luck.
Sep 1st 2007, 5:53 am
#26
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Good on you Mandi for giving it a go, and also for knowing when to give it a stop. Best of luck.[/QUOTE]
agree absolutely, do what youve always done and get what you always got.
rgds scotty
agree absolutely, do what youve always done and get what you always got.
rgds scotty
Sep 1st 2007, 1:34 pm
#27
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Maybe we were too kind in letting them stay with us for such a long time we have thought about that, but these were our friends and we wanted to make the transition easier for them.
When i look back i should have told them they could be with us for a month and then their on their own. This i think was part of the problem they didn't want to buy "stuff" in case they wanted to go back. So in my view they were never really here in the first place. They did give themselves a time frame it went from 2 years down to 1 then lets give it till Christmas then end of Summer to next week!! i suggested going back for a visit to discuss their issues with their family but that was no good. Every suggestion we gave every little hiccup they encountered was like the end of the world to him. Ok he wasn't happy in work but when he had PR he could have moved jobs, he had a damn good job earning the same amount as he was in England, he even said he can't see himself getting by on $100K a year
What i can't understand is why he suddenly changed from being all for it, selling everything, coming over and saying that they'll never go back and wanting to be here 100% then to say nope i'm going home. It's just odd.
I spoke with my friend this morning and she said they feel like it has been just a long holiday. They have a long road ahead of them again, they are drifting between relatives spare rooms, two at one house and two at the other until they move into a rental in 4 weeks with no furniture until theirs arrives in around 8 weeks. They are even having trouble getting their child in school they have to wait and see if someone doesn't turn up so she can have a place!
My heart goes out to my friend who tried so hard to make him stay longer. She spent a lot of time in Canada when small, so she already had a feel for it already. I admire her for standing by her man and i also hope it doesn't come to haunt them in later years. She knows it wasn't long enough and has said she'll regret that.
In a weird way i am glad they have gone, a huge weight has been lifted from our family spending so many weeks tip-toeing around trying not to upset anyone. I am happy again and pleased with what we've achieved here. We are so much more better off here than we were at home which was our goal and in that i am proud.
When i look back i should have told them they could be with us for a month and then their on their own. This i think was part of the problem they didn't want to buy "stuff" in case they wanted to go back. So in my view they were never really here in the first place. They did give themselves a time frame it went from 2 years down to 1 then lets give it till Christmas then end of Summer to next week!! i suggested going back for a visit to discuss their issues with their family but that was no good. Every suggestion we gave every little hiccup they encountered was like the end of the world to him. Ok he wasn't happy in work but when he had PR he could have moved jobs, he had a damn good job earning the same amount as he was in England, he even said he can't see himself getting by on $100K a year
What i can't understand is why he suddenly changed from being all for it, selling everything, coming over and saying that they'll never go back and wanting to be here 100% then to say nope i'm going home. It's just odd.
I spoke with my friend this morning and she said they feel like it has been just a long holiday. They have a long road ahead of them again, they are drifting between relatives spare rooms, two at one house and two at the other until they move into a rental in 4 weeks with no furniture until theirs arrives in around 8 weeks. They are even having trouble getting their child in school they have to wait and see if someone doesn't turn up so she can have a place!
My heart goes out to my friend who tried so hard to make him stay longer. She spent a lot of time in Canada when small, so she already had a feel for it already. I admire her for standing by her man and i also hope it doesn't come to haunt them in later years. She knows it wasn't long enough and has said she'll regret that.
In a weird way i am glad they have gone, a huge weight has been lifted from our family spending so many weeks tip-toeing around trying not to upset anyone. I am happy again and pleased with what we've achieved here. We are so much more better off here than we were at home which was our goal and in that i am proud.
Sep 1st 2007, 4:15 pm
#28
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
I totally agree that if you are convinced the decision is not for you, make the choice and move on.
I have seen in several cases where this occurred, the family relocates back, and within a year they relocate back because england has changed, which of course it hasn't.
I am a fatalist, I just know Canada for future Generations is the country best suited to handle all the climatic instabilities of global Warming, that if I need a culture fix, airfares are cheap and planes are fast, but at the end of the day, the lights work, I don't sleep with a gun under my pillow, I won't go bankrupt from getting ill, and I am surrounded by beautiful scenery.
I have seen in several cases where this occurred, the family relocates back, and within a year they relocate back because england has changed, which of course it hasn't.
I am a fatalist, I just know Canada for future Generations is the country best suited to handle all the climatic instabilities of global Warming, that if I need a culture fix, airfares are cheap and planes are fast, but at the end of the day, the lights work, I don't sleep with a gun under my pillow, I won't go bankrupt from getting ill, and I am surrounded by beautiful scenery.
Sep 1st 2007, 4:53 pm
#29
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
It's clear that a lot of people have an idealistic view of Canada. Comments like "I'm moving here for a better lifestyle" and "moving here to give my kids a better future" are just fanciful comments unless their based on specifics that mean those things can actually happen. Like coming over with a large amount of cash to buy a house and living mortgage free or having a fantastic job offer so finances won't be a worry.
Still, for some moving to Canada it's the most perfect thing and for others it proves to be not so. All the successful movers shouldn't be shaking their heads sadly at those who move back be it after six weeks or six years. We only know ourselves what we want and I doubt anyone is unwise enough not to realise the possible pitfalls of moving back after a very short period or allowing themselves to have a decision seriously influenced by an internet forum. After six weeks of being here I was ready to move back to England but not serious enough to do it. If someone can stand the upheaval of doing that again after a very short period of time the chances are that they're on the right track.
Sep 4th 2007, 2:25 am
#30
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Re: Another view on Mandimoo's going back thread
Hi
I was going to reply on Mandimoo's thread but as i was writing, my reply was getting longer and longer!! so i didn't want to hi-jack it.
Just gone through the same experience here as Mandi moo, not with us though with friends that came over on PNP, they were truly excited about coming over they sold everything and were never going back! We offered to put them up until they found somewhere which they did but they seemed reluctant to find anything. They went through the motions of looking but there was always something stopping them.
Then one day he OH said he wants to go home this was within a few weeks of arriving, talk about shocked!! he said he didn't like his job, he felt terrible that he had taken the children away from their Grandparents and generally didn't feel like he could settle here. His wife was doing fine getting stuck into activities with the kids and getting into the way of life. But over the weeks you could see that he was just pulling her down, we talked and talked about everything they had done and why they came in the first place, friends spoke to them and said they were panicking and needed to give it more time, he listened but you could see it wasn't getting through. Wait for PR and then at least you have a couple of years to come back if you change your mind. But no! Their furniture arrived but he wouldn't get it delivered. He said it would be easier to go back now and pick up where he left off before having anything here to make him stay longer like a house etc.
His wife said she could "make him stay" but could she live with herself?? watching him being miserable all the time?
The atmosphere in our house was terrible no-one knew what to say or do.
As the weeks went by we were taking them all over the place having great days out doing everything possible to help him "see" what there was to offer for them as a family. But he was just waiting for his wife to say ok lets go home. In the end she did and they went last week they were here for 12 weeks in the end but i think in his mind he had left 10 weeks ago.
We have been here for nearly 3 years now and everyone who has done this knows it takes at least 6 months to just get things going, like house, cars, banking and then getting used to the area and then another 6 to familiarise yourself with the way of life here and to overcome the waves of homesickness.
I will grant everyone the for giving it a go. When you come here you have already done the hardest part of immigration by leaving. You will get people saying "well at least you tried and thousands wouldn't" stuff but to be totally truthful to give it only a few months is B****ks, what's the point of coming they haven't "tried" anything they've just had a long holiday!!
If you look back and work out how long it took you to come to this decision to emmergrate in the first place, put everything in order to get here i bet you it was longer than 3 months!! It takes you 3 months to wind down off the rollercoaster you have just been on. Of course you panick and think its easier to go back to what you know, we thought the same.
We are going back for the first time this Christmas as it has made me feel really unsettled, i want to confirm to myself that we did the right thing and also to see family of course. My father told me not to waste my money and to go to Hawaii instead for the same price maybe next year!.
So if you see some mad Brit racing round M&S in the Knicker dep its me !!
I was going to reply on Mandimoo's thread but as i was writing, my reply was getting longer and longer!! so i didn't want to hi-jack it.
Just gone through the same experience here as Mandi moo, not with us though with friends that came over on PNP, they were truly excited about coming over they sold everything and were never going back! We offered to put them up until they found somewhere which they did but they seemed reluctant to find anything. They went through the motions of looking but there was always something stopping them.
Then one day he OH said he wants to go home this was within a few weeks of arriving, talk about shocked!! he said he didn't like his job, he felt terrible that he had taken the children away from their Grandparents and generally didn't feel like he could settle here. His wife was doing fine getting stuck into activities with the kids and getting into the way of life. But over the weeks you could see that he was just pulling her down, we talked and talked about everything they had done and why they came in the first place, friends spoke to them and said they were panicking and needed to give it more time, he listened but you could see it wasn't getting through. Wait for PR and then at least you have a couple of years to come back if you change your mind. But no! Their furniture arrived but he wouldn't get it delivered. He said it would be easier to go back now and pick up where he left off before having anything here to make him stay longer like a house etc.
His wife said she could "make him stay" but could she live with herself?? watching him being miserable all the time?
The atmosphere in our house was terrible no-one knew what to say or do.
As the weeks went by we were taking them all over the place having great days out doing everything possible to help him "see" what there was to offer for them as a family. But he was just waiting for his wife to say ok lets go home. In the end she did and they went last week they were here for 12 weeks in the end but i think in his mind he had left 10 weeks ago.
We have been here for nearly 3 years now and everyone who has done this knows it takes at least 6 months to just get things going, like house, cars, banking and then getting used to the area and then another 6 to familiarise yourself with the way of life here and to overcome the waves of homesickness.
I will grant everyone the
for giving it a go. When you come here you have already done the hardest part of immigration by leaving. You will get people saying "well at least you tried and thousands wouldn't" stuff but to be totally truthful to give it only a few months is B****ks, what's the point of coming they haven't "tried" anything they've just had a long holiday!!If you look back and work out how long it took you to come to this decision to emmergrate in the first place, put everything in order to get here i bet you it was longer than 3 months!! It takes you 3 months to wind down off the rollercoaster you have just been on. Of course you panick and think its easier to go back to what you know, we thought the same.
We are going back for the first time this Christmas as it has made me feel really unsettled, i want to confirm to myself that we did the right thing and also to see family of course. My father told me not to waste my money and to go to Hawaii instead for the same price maybe next year!.
So if you see some mad Brit racing round M&S in the Knicker dep its me !!
All of what you said was great and brilliant. Last March I was in M&S and my mother and sister just laughed at how much underwear I could buy. But you understand me!!