StormWolf

Hello and thank you for your time =).

I'll try and keep this as brief as I can and straight too the point. So I don't waste too much of your time.

I made a post on here a while ago. (But I have no idea what my password was or even what email address I used o.O. )

Link: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=768734

Time has passed, but I still firmly have my heart set on Canada.

However my plans have slightly change.

In the beginning my plan was simple. Train up as an electrician over here in the U.K gain some experience and simply move out. But the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it became. I have read numerous articles of how things are getting harder and harder for foreign tradesmen and especially with all of the competition. Realistically speaking I would stand no chance considering I would have literally little to none work experience within the industry under my belt never mind Canadian experience .

So i decided to tweak my life plan a little.

Instead of training just to be an electrician I want to push myself further to the next level, and aim to become an electrical/renewable engineer. ( still undecided at the moment I quite like the idea of renewable since I think its a niche area and will only grow and grow since the depletion of fossil fuels/ carbon footprint etc.. )

My current situation is the following:
Age: 21
Life savings: £18k
Martial status: Single
Children: None
Living arrangements: Still at home with parents.

Qualification wise ( I am sorry for those who are not from the U.K as you may not understand our qualifications)

I have completed my Level 2 City & Guilds Electrotechnical Craft (2365) and I am currently on target to pass my Level 3 this July.

( Link to the awarding body for the qualification : http://www.cityandguilds.com/courses...echnical-craft )

I must stress that simply completing these courses does NOT make me an electrician. It merely gives me the knowledge aspect of the qualification. If I managed to gain work experience and then completed some more exams I could become an electrician.

However that is irrelevant at the moment because my plan is once I finish and pass ( fingers crossed ) the Level 3 course this year. It will then allow me to continue onto the next step which would be higher education.

As luck would have it the college I am currently at now offers Level 4/5/6 courses ( University level ). And they also offer the one I have my eye on : HNC General Engineering

( Link to awarding body : http://www.edexcel.com/quals/highern...s/default.aspx )

If everything went to plan ( famous last words ) then I will progress HNC => HND => BEng. It will take me 4 years and pretty much wipe out my live savings. But hopefully during the process I might be able to land an internship or something on them lines and be earning and learning.

So I guess going back to my whole point of this thread ( and I am so so sorry for the long winded wall of text. I just thought if I really want advice that it would be best to give you all the full background information)

I am curious to know if my new plan would be more viable ?. Too spend more time in the U.K and becoming more trained/educated as I can.

My overall goal is too be potentially be more employable and more importantly what I am after is too have more job stability. Obviously I know that having a degree does not automatically equal a job. I am fully aware of that. My ideology behind it would be so that I have more knowledge/skills to give and be what employers are looking for. But before someone says it I have read the stories of people who have Masters or even PhD's and are working as taxi drivers ( not that there is nothing wrong with taxi drivers ) because in the eyes of Canada they are not qualified or because simply they can't get a job in their chosen field.

Any advice? Is electrical or renewable engineering still a good solid career path in Canada?

Does anyone have any pointers maybe from their own life stories? (good or bad)

The whole reason I am asking this now is because of some of the stories I have heard of how it can potentially take over 3 years to gain PR status and obviously I know everything can change in the blink of an eye reguarding immigrating laws currently as we speak my potential job title doesn't even come up under the FSW list.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...plications.asp

It seems to have all of the other disciplines of engineering except electrical, meaning that there is no need/shortage of electrical engineers?. Even so I am fully aware that I would have needed at least 1 year full time employment and have a valid contract of employment with a company that has LMO status yadda yadda. But under NOC it potentially comes under section 724

So I am not too fussed because at the moment I am not in any position to be applying. My main concern is ( just like in my last thread ) making sure I am laying down the correct foundations which hopefully will enable me later on in life too be more prepared and ready to move rather than rushing and moving and then due to a lack of research and planning slowly crumbling and eventually crashing & burning and resulting with me returning to the U.K with my tail between my legs .....so too speak.

I am fully aware with all the sceptics out there that 4/5 years is a long time and that the grass is not always greener on the other side. I am fully aware of such things like the weather being like -14°C. The possibility of tornadoes/floods. The fact if the Hydro goes down ( which sometimes it does) you will be without electricity ( depending on where you live) yadda yadda. The crime in Toronto/shootings. The cost of living. Health care/ education. Unemployment.

But no country is perfect. It's what you make of it that counts.

To me Canada has so much potential and also natural resources . And being that I am really interested in the renewable/electrical side. It seems like a no brainer.

If you are still reading this then thank you so much !. You really do deserve a medal for managing to stay awake. Because I wasn't expecting to be writing an essay today o.O.

Thank you all for your time and if anyone has any information/advice/pointers please feel free to share. But oh! just like in my old thread please don't sugar coat your reply =') . I'd rather have it straight and in black and white =).


Peace out ^ ^

-Danny

The world is constantly changing.
And with change comes new problems to solve.

christmasoompa

Welcome back. I can ask Sue to merge your accounts if you like so that people can see your post history? I can also check the email address you registered with on the previous account if that would help.

Why are you only looking at that FSW visa? That's only one of over 50 visa routes, so if your potential job isn't on the list, then it doesn't mean you don't qualify for any visa. Have you looked at the Skilled Trade route?

As per your previous advice, the IEC is still going to be your easiest/quickest route out there. If I'm honest, I don't really see why you're planning on studying and staying in the UK for another 4/5 years if you're so sure that you want to move to Canada. Why not study over there (that way you get a post graduate work permit, plus a degree instantly recognisable to Canadian employers etc)?

No you wouldn't - for FSW, you'd need at least one year full-time work experience, but if your job is on 'the list' of eligible occupations then there's no need for a job offer or LMO.

As for renewable energy, my husband works in renewable energy and has worked in both countries, if you have any specific questions I'm happy to ask him for you. I don't think it's booming as much in Canada right now as it was a few years ago (although tbh I'm only basing that on the fact that the headhunters from Canada have slowed down a bit recently!). It's a great industry to be in in the UK though, and trust me, the UK isn't all bad!

Best of luck with your plans, as people said to you previously I do admire your maturity and planning, although I also think you might be over thinking this a bit if I'm honest. Having a life plan is great, but you're focussing on what visa requirements Canada has in place now, which is fairly pointless if you don't want to go for 4 or 5 years. The FSW program, for instance, is going to change massively next year, to an EOI system like Australia has. So there's just no point in worrying about making yourself eligible for something that won't even be in place by the time you want to go.

Just enjoy your studies, do something you love, and then when the time comes you can head on over on an IEC (I don't see that program disappearing, hopefully!). I don't think it needs to be complicated, and as I said above, another option would be to look to do your degree in Canada, which would kill several birds with one stone.

Best of luck.

StormWolf

Hello Christmasoompa and thank you so much for your very speedy response. To be honest I wasn't expecting such a good response so quick =').

If Sue could merge my account I would be so ever grateful =).

When you say it like that. I guess I don't know why I am so focused on FSW. It just seemed to me to be the most solid stable ones if that even makes sense?. I mean like I said my main emphasis is too try and make it out there but more importantly survive. I guess the thing that made me wonder about the Skilled trades route is that if I go as an electrician. I know I would have to retrain to Canada standards and do the Red seal exam no problem there but it would be the job stability I would be worried about. I am only merely speculating but if it is like the U.K with most Electricians being self-employed or contracted it would feel like a big risk in the long run.

I will have to look into the IEC a lot more now you mentioned it. Where as before I only glanced at it because I didn't think I had the skills set or knowledge

I have thought about the possibility of studying over in Canada and I agree it would kill so so many birds with one stone. My only fear is costing/debt and the risk of what happens if I don't make it? or change my mind?.

At the moment as we speak the cost for higher education at my college is the following:

1 Year = £6,400 ( because they are a college and not a university so therefore can not charge the full amount)

Funding from the government = £3,387 < That is a Maintenance Grant (2014 figure) thus therefore meaning if you qualify for it. ( Household income under 25k which mine is) you don't have to pay a grant back. So essential free money.

https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/loans-and-grants

£6,400 - £3,387 = £3,013 a year.

So I've speculated that it will cost me around £3,013 a year. Now considering the time period of 4 years. It's going to be in the ball park figure of like £12k - 13 k give or take. Although I know all the figures can change at any point.

I should have enough to cover that ( life savings) because whilst still here in the U.K I still have the full support of my parents ( place to live). I know with Canadian university that the cost will be higher for foreign people as I briefly looked into this before too. But that is understandable




That is pretty damn strange how your husband works for renewable energy and has worked in both countries but heck I am not complaining =D!. I understand what you are saying, the U.K are emphasising more on renewable energy since I guess our supplies are depleting and the costs are going up from importing and also with the 2020 carbon emission target. Ironically where I live the government have just given the green light for a £450m Green Renewables centre to be built. Should be complete in 3 years. Plus Canada doesn't have to really worry so much about renewable since they have the Hydro and I think I read in some reports how Canada has like x amount of the worlds natural gas supply anyways. Which when considering its the 2nd most largest country is no surprise. It makes you wonder why they are trying to claim the North Pole was it? .




^ Story of my life =P


Thank you for all of your advice. It's really helped me open my eyes I guess. Because just like you said in 4-5 years things will change anyways.

Jingsamichty

If you get a British electrical engineering degree, not to mention all your college qualifications prior to the degree, PLUS a few years of solid experience in Britain for a decent engineering/construction firm, then you will be eminently employable anywhere in the world.

You're very young and the world is a great, big, exciting place - don't make the mistake of rushing to Canada too soon. Many old hands will tell you that once you're here it can seem much more restrictive and insular than the UK.

StormWolf

Hello Jingsamichty =) and thank you for your comment.

I appreciate your very wise words. And I have took everything that has been said today on board.

I am going to stop worrying and trying to tailor myself to the immigration requirements as they will change. And just enjoy life and try to get qualified and experienced as I can whilst I am still in the U.K and while I am in a very fortunate position to be able to.

I have heard people say that. Especially British engineers, as we are trained to a very high standards. My old tutor has a Masters in electrical engineering and some of the stories he used to tell us of some of the jobs he has done and how he has been all over the world on jobs. It was really an eye opener some of the experience and memories he had but then at the same time he also told us how much he had to sacrifice.

Once again thank you for your wise words and for just being honest with me and telling me straight how it is =). Because that is all I am after. Advice and guidance from the people who have been there. Because I am not going to get this kind of information from the career advisers as they only seem to tell you the good point theses days .... well the ones I have talked to.

Oink

Save up a bit more and buy a house, get a girlfriend and then go on a long holiday somewhere warm when its winter at home. Canada is rubbish for young people.

milomilo

What makes you say that? Different places will suit different people but I'm sure most young people would be happy somewhere in Canada.

StormWolf

Hello Oink =) ! and thank you for your comment.

I must admit when I did read your message I couldn't help but smile and chuckle ='D ! haha.

Although this does sound very appealing to some people and I won't lie. But to me I just don't think I could bring myself to do it xD haha.

In my eyes, my life savings is now going to be used for life long development or basically an investment for my future. ( Although you could argue that I could invest in a property do it up and sell it la la la. ) But the thing is instead of just thinking about today or tomorrow I tend to think about 5? 10? 15? years down the line. Instead of just looking at the smaller picture I am constantly thinking about the bigger picture and long term future.

I mean the way I look at things now.

We are all living for much longer then we have before. And the cost of living is always increasing day by day. This has then caused the retirement age to go up and up because some people simply cant afford to not work or because of the over populating world. Now I don't know about you but if I make it too be the grand old age of 70 I'm not particularly thriving on the idea of breaking my back or popping my hip carrying heavy duty tools up stairs.

Now my current ideology ( and I know someone will pull me up/flame me for this ) is to work as hard as I can and study my butt off while I am still in my 20's - 30's and while I am very fortunate not to have any financial commitments (mortgage / bills/ girlfriend/kids).

My mentality has always been work/career first. And I do agree because I know someone will say it that there is more to life, go out and enjoy and explore the world while your still young, stop worrying so much. And this next bit is all totally my own opinion. But I always like to think that you appreciate things more later in life as you get older. Because your more mature and you understand the true value of money and life. And just how precious life is.

So I like to think that if I work hard now and put in all the effort while I am still young and able, that I will be able to potentially enjoy later life more. Instead of having fun now and then having to work my butt off later on in life. Where I imagine life will be a lot lot more harder.

Now I know all of that may be a little bit over dramatic or unrealistic. But all I am basing that on is of my own personal life experiences. When I used to work in the warehousing industry there were people there in their late 30's late 40's and even near retirement age. And it seemed to me the impression I got from their stories that after each month they were just scraping by and just keeping their heads above water and it was too late to get out due to the local economical situation..... I don't want to end up in that kind of situation later on in life hence why I quit my job and enrolled myself back into education to try and get a better future.

Also one last point, as for getting a girlfriend ( no offence to any females on here ) but in my own opinion girls around my age and my area are just trouble. I've only got one girl in my life and that is my best friend who is from Canada and whom I have known for over 2 years now. One girl is more than enough for me xD haha.

not2old

In part I agree with oink. And you are what 21 still living at home?

How would you consider or manage a lifetime of continually having to keep on top of the latest technology, to re-position or re-educate yourself all with girlfriend/wife & kids, slogging to pay the bills as well as traveling the career path never being out of work .... when does the fun begin?

Many of us have done it as well as emigrating with a family, starting a new life finding that we needed to re-establish, re-think the life plan (put food on the table & pay the bills) find a job ...

Right now you are likely thinking that you'll never have a girlfriend or be involved in a serious relationship or get married & have kids - that education & work is the only thing that matters - that you'll live at home with your parents forever.

if you can get the B.Eng & C.Eng within the next 4 -7 years & have it all done by 30 - by all means go for it. At your age you must think 30 or 40 years of age is really old?

A few words ... plans are plans only, most folks waffle as time goes by & the plans slip. Decision time (you're taking too much time thinking about it), move your arse, set the target, get on track, aim for the goal posts & if things come up (think of every possible situation) can you still reach the target?

After the undergraduate degree in Electrical Engineering why stop there, why not another field or profession even a Masters or Doctorate?

You must be aware that there are folks under & over 30 years of age that have degrees who are married with several kids and that there are unemployed Electricians, Engineers and college lecturers.

From now till when you reach 30 will you always be employed, to be able to fund the education and have the stamina to do everything else in your life?

Education as well as experience does not stop at 30 - its a lifetime journey & adventure - make the most of it & enjoy the trip.

StormWolf

Firstly I would just like to thank you " not2old " for taking the time to write your message.

I can tell you speak with past experience/wisdom and that you have been there, done that and probably have gotten the t-shirt to prove it. And I fully respect everything you have said.

I can't argue with you because it is very true everything you have said.

I guess I got what I was looking for. A reality check.

The only things I will say.

In all honestly I have never been particularly interested. Even back throughout my childhood. But that might be due to psychological or personal factors. There has only been one girl I have really liked but it would never work out.

I know that there is more to life than just work/education. I just don't want to be sat here in 20 - 40 years time thinking ...... why didn't I try harder?. Probably a fear we all have at one point in our lifes. The fear of being a failure.


Not true. I'm only still at home because of the financial security and stability it offers whilst I am studying. But I know in your eyes and that of others on here a 21 year old still living at home is rather pathetic when you think about it. Things have changed a lot from what they used to be like.

News article : http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/a-q...174221820.html

The most recent yahoo question : http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...4222628AAarGuQ

I know its not the best option but it is a smart option considering the economical climate. Rather then be in eyeballs of debt and taking away a flat that someone else could need more than me because I have the option of being at home where they might not have. But once I gain a job again I'll be moving out.

I don't think 30 or 40 is an old age at all. Heck by time I know it I will be 30!. I know it takes on average they say around 8 - 10 years to be C.Eng stated. Providing you have I think a B.Eng and also a separate Masters. But I know that there is an alternative way which is the progression and development route I think ? Once you hit I.Eng status and then 5 years more experience or something like that ?. But that's all depends on the panels decision.

I am fully aware of the situation and the risks that will follow, everything is going to be a big gamble but then again that's life right?. I know theses days job's aren't for life like they used too be. My dad is an telephone engineer and has worked for the same company for over 25 years. I know that is very rare to see that in today's climate.


Once again thank you for your honest advice. You have certainly given me a lot of food for thought.

I certainly liked your style

Life is a marathon not a sprint right ?

- Danny

not2old

let say you finish your apprenticeship & become a fully fledged certified electrician & want to go further education towards degree level to become a chartered electrical engineer.

With an NVQ3 going into an HNC/HND or degree course just be aware of the maths in those programmes is rigorous.

Being a fully qualified electrician is a respectable profession & one I believe today pays a decent wage.

My suggestion is to get qualified, start working & maybe do the PT/night school HNC & see how it goes, because if you work for a mid sized to larger company & have your years in - likely with the HNC you'll get promoted.

or maybe follow the C&G route to Chartered Engineer

http://www.cityandguilds.com.hk/uplo...ec10_LRweb.pdf

http://www.cityandguilds.com/courses...iploma/level-6

good luck with your plans

not2old

qualified to I.Eng level (not possible with just an NVQ3) with CPD, job level etc you're likely on about the 'mature candidate route to professional membership & C.ENG - I think its over age 35?

The ABOVE are designations not qualifications.

You could look at the progressive LCGI, MCGI way towards getting Engineer level

http://www.cityandguilds.com/career-...gnition-awards

http://www.cityandguilds.com/courses...on-comparisons

An I.Eng, or C.Eng or member of IET is only good as long as you pay the membership fees.

An HNC, Diploma or Degree once earned is yours for life

colchar

That is primarily people who have come from countries in which the education system is not on par with Canada's.

Here is an example - when I was in my PhD program there was a student from Pakistan in the Master's program in the same department. He already had a BA and MA from Pakistan and had applied to the PhD program but the university would only admit him to the MA program because his previous degrees did not equate with Canadian degrees. In Pakistan he had earned his BA after two years and his MA after another two - so a total of four years in university. In Canada those four years would only have earned him a BA so his degrees simply were not up to Canadian standards. He was a bit put out about only being admitted to the MA program, and he said that his family were really mad about it, but after he had been here a little while he said that he fully understood the university's decision because Canadian students in the MA program with him were more qualified than he was despite him already having a Master's from Pakistan. He said that the education he received in his four years and two degrees did not measure up to the education that Canadian students had earned in their four year undergraduate degrees.

But since you are coming from Britain, where the university system is equal to the Canadian system, you should be fine.





The occupations that the Canadian government groups together in their categories can often be real head scratchers as they do not have anything to do with each other.




That depends entirely on where in Canada you are. And speaking as someone who hates the cold, -15c isn't really that bad.



I've lived here the majority of my life and have never experienced either one of those so I wouldn't worry too much about them if I were you.




Power outages happen everywhere. They aren't a big deal. The recent massive power outages were the result of an ice storm which was the worst one we had had in decades so big outages like that are far from common.



That issue is overblown. I have never been the victim of a crime nor do I know anyone who has.



I would argue that our cost of living is lower than it is in Britain (higher salaries so everything you buy takes up a lower percentage of your salary than in Britain, lower costs for many things, higher costs for some others).


Our health care system is excellent. After hearing some horror stories about the NHS I will take out system any day. I had a serious health issue last year, that is continuing now to a lesser degree, and the health care that I received was superb. In fact, I put the fact that my foot didn't have to be amputated (and for a while there it was a very real possibility) down to the excellence of the healthcare that I received.



There is unemployment everywhere. If you have a decent education and skills that employers need/want you will be fine.

StormWolf

Crikey ! O.O . That's a lot of links and information

I have been made fully aware that the maths is both rigorous and at the same time sometimes ridiculous! by my tutor for the next level. Because as a pre-condition before I could even start to consider going onto HNC he told me I have to pass "Level 3 Further Maths" ( because the requirements for the HNC course is that you have to have both a Level 3 in an engineering discipline and maths.)

Therefore, so that I didn't lose a year having to go and learn maths I enrolled onto the Level 3 Maths night class we have at college and paid the £200 fee. And so far its been fun =) !. I've managed to pass all my tests so far which has covered both arithmetic & geometric progression, complex numbers ( so much fun the first time you see that stuff) , standard deviation, solving simultaneous equations by graphs , trigonometric waveforms and the last test I had last Thursday was on compound angles which was a real hoot.

But now I finally get my hands on what I've been waiting for as our next book is on the infamous " Calculus". Just been doing some of the equations self teaching myself trying to get a head start before next week lessons. Differentiation of Algebraic functions is what I am on right now.



That is very true and I do agree with pretty much everything you have said.

And I really do appreciate you taking time out of your day to find me them links. Because I am definitely going too research the C&G level 6 & 7/LCGI,MCGI route.

http://www.engc.org.uk/ecukdocuments...gistration.pdf

^ That is where I got the information reguarding the C.Eng.

But I might of misread the chart. From my understandings I thought it went a bit like this : HND => Further learning to Bachelors level => Assessed professional development and experience => I.Eng and then 5 years experience with evidence => C.Eng.

Saying that is does say on the website :

"The CEng professional registration is open to anyone who can demonstrate the required professional competences and commitment. These are set out in our professional standard, UK-SPEC, and are developed through education and working experience.

The process will be more straightforward if you have particular academic qualifications, which will also allow you to obtain interim registration.

For CEng these are:

• an accredited Bachelors degree with honours in engineering or technology, plus either an appropriate Masters degree or Engineering Doctorate (EngD) accredited by a professional engineering institution, or appropriate further learning to Masters level

• or an accredited integrated MEng degree

However, you can still become a Chartered Engineer if you do not have these academic qualifications. Further information about the assessment process can be found in UK-SPEC. "

So technically speaking you could be on a NVQ3 go on an advanced apprenticeship gain EngTech status. Build up a portfolio and as long as you can provide the following:

http://www.engc.org.uk/ecukdocuments...ry/UK-SPEC.pdf

( Page 18 )

Applicants who do not have exemplifying qualifications may demonstrate
the required knowledge and understanding in other ways, but must clearly
demonstrate they have achieved the same level of knowledge and understanding
as those with exemplifying qualifications.

Ways to demonstrate this include:


• Taking further qualifications, in whole or in part, as specified by the institution
to which they are applying

• Completing appropriate work-based or experiential learning


• Writing a technical report, based on their experience, and demonstrating
their knowledge and understanding of engineering principles


• Until 2011, taking Engineering Council examinations.

Applicants should consult their licensed professional engineering institution
for advice on the most appropriate option

If you could prove the following then you would gain I.Eng status and then same goes to C.Eng status. If I am reading all of that right?. Although it does seem a lot harder and more long winded. It would all depend on if you can convince the panel and if your reports and evidence is up too scratch.

Really? Wow ..... I mean I knew you had to pay but I didn't realise you have to pay every year just to keep the damn title!. Pffft ! what a con I should have known it sounded too good to be true=').