iaink

If there is I havent experienced it, but then I am a white european immigrant, so I am guessing I am less likely to be on the receiving end?

Iain

Covenant

No, sorry I meant from Canadians toward any newcomer irrespective of ethnicity.

iaink

Like I said, I havent experienced it, but I suspect that there is an element of racism towards some coloured minorities. I guess this is not so much based on the fact they are immigrants as much as on race. But then there are predudiced idiots wherever you go in the world, so i dont think Canada is deserving of any special mention in that respect.

Most places I go, people hear my accent, and once I explain that I am not Australian or South African they ask a few questions about the royal family, the rain and the high cost of living. Ssometimes they are interested how I ended up in a relativly low profile part of canada. I think often they are genuinely pleased that there hometown is nice enough to attract people from abroad, but maybe that is just my spin on it, either way my background is not an issue in any way, but that could be the benefit of being in a small community where there are not thousands of immigrants.

Iain

Smokey

We've had exactly the same thing. Australian, South African, New Zealand and in one case Italian.....who'd have thought it?? People here are just curious, those who aren't just get on with their stuff. The only time I've spoken to someone about the royal family was when Edward came to Regina last year....boy did he have a small turnout! The only downside is that sometimes we have mis-communications occuring. Personally I have experienced more raceism in Cornwall than (none) in Canada.

flashman

Here's some additional (pdf) info from the Conference Board of Canada regarding employability. Education and experience are not the only criteria.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/educat...fs/esp2000.pdf

jonthelad

Being here 5 years, I have found it very hard to make friends. I've made one or two 'work friends' but nothing that really develops outside of work.

And yes, it's damn hard to even get people to let me into their tiny little universe. I don't want to blame 'Canadians' as the people here are so diverse, but most people here are just rude!

It's a horrible thing to say, but in my gut, I do feel that half the problem is the high density of Russian, Italian in my area who seem very cliquey. They never say Hi or return a smile, let alone encourage a conversation.

I didn't feel this way 5 years ago but over the past 18 months or so I feel that it would be better if I moved house to a more 'English speaking' area... The only friend I've really managed to make is a husband of one of my wife's friends (and he's Scottish - I'm a Bournemouth lad) and he is a wonderful guy but doesn't live close enough for good pubbing etc.

Maybe I'm not likeable enough?! Seriously, how do I know? Quite honestly, I want to move back to the UK but will just stay and grin & bear it cos I would hate to move wife and our 3 young kids away from their family here.

Covenant

I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, this aspect of ethnic aloofness for want of a better term, is not just with the Russians Italians etc, but with all groups including my own (indians). To some extent this is a defence mechanism which offers a level of security because in a strange country you need that reassurance of familiarity. In fairness there is also a sense of not wanting to mix either, in order to retain culture and traditions, but I think this is common with any immigrant group of all nationalities in any country.

I did find some level of rudeness from some eastern european people, but again it's a cultural thing, even in the UK, one does not radically change ones social skills, and way of living when moving to a different country, I still get annoyed at my people who don't seem to say thanks if you give them way, or do them a courtesy, but to them they are not aware of this social grace. But the new generations change and adapt to their adopted country.

I am saddened though that you feel this level of isolation, and this is compounded when you are thousands of miles away from your own family and old friends.
Maybe the other posters could come up with some advice.

I wish you and yours well.

Glaswegian

I have heard it said that the Brit accent "sounds" angry and rude whatever you may actually be saying. So to play devil's advocate here - is it possible that these Canadians are responding before they actually listen to the words?

And yes before I'm asked we too have experienced some very rude Canadians. The school experiences above are very similar to ours. One group of Moms even "sent my wife to Coventry" because she had the cheek to report quite a serious bullying incident. Fortunately the bully's Mom moved out of area and did not return for the following year.

joggerjo

..probably should have started a completely new thread but why do you think that schools here are unfriendly places for the parents?

In most cases it is pretty much a guarantee in the UK that you will meet people through your kids school so why is it not the same here? Having read numerous postings now it seems to be the same wherever you are from in Canada. Schools are normally friendly places!

I do intend to keep giving it a go at our elementary school even if it gets me nowhere.........

JJ

oceanMDX

Very well stated Stepnek.

oceanMDX

Sure, viewing the majority of Canadians (that you have met) as "rude and ignorant" clearly shows that it can't possibly be anything about you that has made it a little difficult to make friends here - it's all our shortcomings.

Interested

Hello,

I've been in Toronto for 3 years now, infact 3 years in a couple of days.

The first 6 months to a year were probably the hardest of my life! It was such a struggle to remain positve and sane as I didn't have a work visa at that point, no friends and was cooped up inside an apartment every day. When you feel like that it is very hard to have a positive view of Canada and Canadians alike.

The turning point for me was realising that sitting on my arse and doing nothing to remedy the situation was not helping in the least. I realised that I wouldn't make friends if I wasn't willing to put in extra effort to get to know people. It is up to the newcomer to make the first move with people, they already have their group of friends and therefore aren't likely to make as much effort with you. You have to remember how you were in the U.K, did you make an effort with someone new? Probably not much beacuse you didn't really need another friend.

I'm not into the whole church thing, so didn't bother with that. I found an expat group in Toronto and now have a group of friends from that. For a while I also took French and Yoga classes and met some people through that, although I didn't stay in touch with any of them. I also went back to school and met some friends through that and we hang out. Now I've been working for about 3 months, I have met a couple of people in the office that are friends, we go out for lunch etc.

So now I feel like I know quite a few people, but remember this took 3 years, not 3 months. I'm not particulary out going either, so it can be done even if you are not mr. or mrs extrovert.

I still get homesick though, I don't think that ever really goes away! However the difference in how I feel now to how I felt three years ago is huge. I agree 3 months is not long enough to have made an informed decison.

Int.

Interested

Hello,

I've been in Toronto for 3 years now, infact 3 years in a couple of days.

The first 6 months to a year were probably the hardest of my life! It was such a struggle to remain positve and sane as I didn't have a work visa at that point, no friends and was cooped up inside an apartment every day. When you feel like that it is very hard to have a positive view of Canada and Canadians alike.

The turning point for me was realising that sitting on my arse and doing nothing to remedy the situation was not helping in the least. I realised that I wouldn't make friends if I wasn't willing to put in extra effort to get to know people. It is up to the newcomer to make the first move with people, they already have their group of friends and therefore aren't likely to make as much effort with you. You have to remember how you were in the U.K, did you make an effort with someone new? Probably not much beacuse you didn't really need another friend.

I'm not into the whole church thing, so didn't bother with that. I found an expat group in Toronto and now have a group of friends from that. For a while I also took French and Yoga classes and met some people through that, although I didn't stay in touch with any of them. I also went back to school and met some friends through that and we hang out. Now I've been working for about 3 months, I have met a couple of people in the office that are friends, we go out for lunch etc.

So now I feel like I know quite a few people, but remember this took 3 years, not 3 months. I'm not particulary out going either, so it can be done even if you are not mr. or mrs extrovert.

I still get homesick though, I don't think that ever really goes away! However the difference in how I feel now to how I felt three years ago is huge. I agree 3 months is not long enough to have made an informed decison.

Int.

fleate

Re: making friends

I am a Vancouver-based Canadian who once moved to Toronto for several years, and also lived in the UK for a year. I found the experience of making new friends just the same in Toronto as in the UK. It’s important to remember that, as someone mentioned above, most of the people you see around you—in Canada or the UK—already have an established social network. It takes an extra effort to become part of it.

In my own case, I found that after a year of living in Toronto, although I had a few acquaintances, I still had no friends. As I had registered for an evening class at that point, I made a resolution that, during our breaks, I would (over the course of the semester) open a conversation with every single other person in the class at some point. I made the same resolution regarding a keep-fit class, etc. It seems like a forced and methodical thing to do, but it was effective. One of the women with whom I spoke was a new emigrant, and still learning english; I suggested to her that we could get together occasionally for conversation so she could practise her english with me. She was very pleased, and a friendship grew out of it.

When I moved to the UK, the situation was identical. People were not rushing to my door to become acquainted. In fact, no one knocked on my door at all. Those of you who move to Canada and feel lonely—when you were still in the UK, did you make a habit of seeking out those around you who might be strangers, and making friends with them? Probably not; I sure didn’t before I became one of the “outsiders� myself. So in the UK, I also felt lonely and friendless at first, but tackled it the same way---making the extra effort to (over time) have a conversation with everyone in the class/ or the neighbours close by/ or the runners in the club or whatever.

Now I try to be more sensitive to new arrivals because I better understand what it feels like being a stranger in a new place. I recently met a couple from eastern Canada who had moved here over a year ago. I asked them how they liked Vancouver. Beautiful city, they said—but they felt isolated. I jumped on them! (well, not literally) but tracked them down later, invited them over (which was almost discombobulating for them as we had only met for ten minutes, and they had forgotten my name and what I looked like) and invited them for dinner... and the friendship has taken off. They are absolutely super people, and my life is richer for it.

fleate

Interested,

I just re-read your post above, and see that I have basically repeated exactly what you said! (I had just scanned it before)

Glad to hear that you are feeling at home in Toronto, and that it was worth hangin' in there!