Purley

My sister has lived in Vancouver for over 30 years. I asked her yesterday why she decided to stay. She said that when she came her she made a promise to herself that she would stay a year. She said that if she had not done that - she would have gone home. However, she stuck it out for the year and by that time had made lots of friends and never looked back.

In mentioning the woman who wants to go home after 3 months, I wasn't suggesting that everyone is suited to Canada - I was just suggesting that if you come here you should give it a good go. Like someone else said - if you hate where you are - try moving somewhere else. Make a resolve to stay for a certain period of time. If you still hate it at the end of your time period - then go home.

It just seems silly to me to come here and spend all that money and go back after 3 months. I think if you make one friend, then that friend can introduce you to other people.

Its the same for Canadians or English people trying to join a new group. A friend of mine wanted to go lawn bowling so she joined by herself. I don't suppose the members were unfriendly people, it was just that they already had their groups and weren't aware enough that they should welcome a newcomer, so it didn't work out. She said that if a member had taken her and introduced her to the group she would have been fine. So, getting friends is difficult for anyone, not just an emigrant.

simonhouse

3 months is far too short to try anywhere. I presume that they probably purchased a three month return back to UK, as a kind of insurance if things didn't work out.

Sidestepping the topic a little - we went on holiday to UK for a couple of weeks in May. Quite honestly, I'm amazed we made it back to Canada. Me, a grown 6 ft 250lb male who was bawling his eyes out as the plane departed from Gatwick. It was like "Oh no, back to the real world in Calgary now!". Amazing how things change isn't it?

flashman

According to recent articles in the expat Weekly Telegraph there are actually two countries that have been left behind. The articles discuss the increasing North/South divide where the south is described as being centred on London and is economically and socially advantaged compared to the North.

Does this mean that Northerners will find Canada more acceptable than Southeners? Or do generalizations still apply?

Tom Masters

Interesting question! I think it depends on what each individual is leaving behind and what they are hoping to find in Canada.

My dad's cousin immigrated to Canada from a depressed area of Wales 30 years ago. She loves Canada and she visits her mum in the UK once a year. She hates the UK based on her experience of it and compares what she has in Canada to what she would have had in Wales if she had stayed.

We have just moved from SE England where the stay at home mums that I know, mainly drive expensive vehicles, live in large houses and have two or three foreign holidays a year. They might have a different view about leaving the UK for Canada - maybe they've got more to give up?

Most people nowadays applying via the skilled worker route have to have quite a high standard of education as well as a fair amount of cash in order to get PR status. If you compare that to people emigrating 30 years ago from the UK, maybe people now expect more from Canada?

I don't think you can generalize too much about the 'North/South divide' as there are a mixture of people of various socio-economic groups all over the UK.

Tom Masters

I agree definitely about it being hard to break in to well established groups. I'm sure that happens everywhere - whether it is in a new country or 10 miles up the road! It just seems worse when you are so far away from home!!

We are going to give it a year here so that we can see how we feel in a few months time. If we still don't like living here in London, we will probably move to a different part of Canada unless we are completely convinced that we want to go back to the UK.

dingbat

Just got a call from a friend of mine from the Ukraine. She moved from Calgary to BC and has just moved to Montreal. She thinks that she might actually get work there - she is an architect and is raving about it. Might be worth a look...

Purley

The thing that annoys me because I think it gives Canada a bad name, seems to be that when potential immigrants get advice from the Canadian government as to their job prospects, it seems like everything is painted with rose coloured spectacles!!

My sister knows a Belgian couple in Vancouver who were both lawyers in Belgium and according to them, and I see no reason to disbelieve them because I have heard this story over and over, they were encouraged to come to Canada on the basis that we need lawyers here. They were apparently never told that they would have to start all over again and get university degrees and go to law school. Now, some people mght say that this was obvious but if you are encouraged to come by the Canadian government, surely you are entitled to think that you will get a job here.

I don't know what it is with all the "must have" Canadian experience. I can see that in some jobs you would need Canadian experience, but if you are a qualified nurse or a qualified physiotherapist - which we are crying out for - why would they make you jump through a load of hoops to get here? Isn't it all the same - I am here talking about English speaking immigrants. I am not prejudiced but obviously you need to speak English or French to work in Canada.

Sorry, I have gotten off the topic a bit!

Tom Masters

I can see I'm going to have to go on a huge research trip all over Canada until I find a bit that fits just right!

joggerjo

Hi

Good luck........I have been going to my kids school for the last 2 years plus and have not made one friend with any of the parents! I have made some friends here but unfortunately not through school which I find very strange. There was a huge crowd of us that ended up being good friends from our school in England so before anyone says it, it is not me! I have tried honest but yes, I find a lot rude. Obviously, not all Canadians are rude but some are and unfriendly.

JJ

dingbat

It's not you - after eight + years of taking my kids to school, being active in the school system (I even have to work within it occasionally) and attempting to meet them halfway, I just could not be bothered with the local parents. My mates from the UK are still my mates, they come over, they have a laugh, are baffled at the attitudes and go home again. My school aged kids in England had friends from every culture you can imagine and I was friendly with most of the parents. We all worked, were all hurling our kids through the doors on the way to the office or whatever but still had time to say hello and pass the time of day.

Covenant

Liz, I find it incredible that a seemingly highly professional and educated couple could make such a fundamental mistake like this, I believe you, but I can't find any sympathy for anyone who fails to research the demand in their profession in the country they are planning to move permanently to. Harsh? Yes. but its up to an individual to carry out this research, and there is too much history from disgruntled people posting on forums such as these where the truth is that your foreign qualifications and experience means zilch.

Canada is a FRONTIER western country very rural in the makeup and thinking (generally). The country is still developing, and building up the infrastructure etc. But that's the beauty of it. the possibilities are limitless provided you are prepared for some hardship.

There is very much a small town mentality, in some areas, but this can have its benefits in that people are still in general, friendly, etc.

My limited experience when I visited was the position of being a city dweller going to stay with the country cousins. This is no offense to the Canadians, I found it refreshing, and the people friendly and pleasant. I may be wrong, and I hope I don't cause offense, but people take a reality check!

I don't like to hear anything negative said about other peoples experience when they moved to Canada, but that's because my hope is that I will be going there soon, and it underscores the possibility and danger that I won't like it out there.

I have to acknowledge the vast experience and stories of the intelligent people who have made the move and found problems. Its not all the land of flowing milk and honey, life is hard, there are things that you feel are more akin to a third world country, but its an adventure and there are many intengible things that make the move positive as those above have stated despite their hardships.


Sorry I rambled on, but If you want the UK stay in the UK, but if you want a challenge, and change in lifestyle, with the all the inherent risks and benefits that come with this, then go for it. At least you will go to your deatyhbed in your great old age, and say, I have no regrets.

flashman

Good point. Canada is still very much a "Work in Progress" with a history of 200 years vs. 1000+ for the U.K. One of the results is an attempt to avoid many of the mistakes made by the U.K. during its history so things will be different.

I would suggest that settling in is based on two things. 50% is qualifications and 50% is attitude.

For instance, the superior class based attitute typical of many Brits is one of the things Canada is trying to avoid in its development.

Covenant

Do you think though, that there is a 'them and us' invert snobbery developing relating to the newcomers and second (or even third/forth etc for that matter) generation Canadians?

Iain Mc

I agree with that! My partner is a qualified physiotherapist and I can confirm she is, indeed, being asked to jump through a load of hoops to get there. They are not only largely inappropriate examinations (purely generalist, she is now after many years of experience quite specialised) but also very expensive and province specific. If we did decide to "explore" as mentioned earlier in the thread and leave BC for, say, Alberta, she'd have to go through much of the process again.

This is in stark contrast to other countries that could be seen as competition for Canada in attracting skilled healthcare professionals (for instance New Zealand, who are vastly more clued up). Then again, whilst there are people like us willing to put up with it, there's no real impetus for the system to change.

Having said that, pay and conditions for unionised healthcare workers in British Columbia aren't too bad, if she can find work she'll get plenty of holiday and the pay is reasonable if not stellar.

On a different tack, I can't agree with the "if you're not willing to put up with low holiday / low pay then don't come" business. This merely conditions people to accept such things as normal. They need not be, everyone has options. I am put in mind of a working gap year I had in Vancouver where I we had exactly the same advice before hand, and most folk I kept in contact with ended up working awful jobs for low pay and no holiday, thinking the system wouldn't allow them to get any better. From my own experience, which I admit is anecdotal to anyone else, this is certainly not the case. No-one is compelled to take a dull job with no vacation just because they're British. Think about switching careers, if you arrive with the intention of learning a new trade, you also bypass the Canadian experience conundrum and build contacts and acquaintances off the bat. There's an awful lot of migrants from the IT field - is swapping one grey office for another with half the holiday really worth travelling all that way for? Mebbe take the chance to try something different, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

It's also disheartening to see so many negative comments about Canadians, I've been there every year since 1998 and count several Canadians among my best friends, but I suppose there's an element of luck in who you meet.

Sukhi - I’ve certainly never experienced any negativity toward my working or moving there. Indeed, the majority of comments (in all seriousness) have been very positive. There is a lot of mistrust, certainly in British Columbia, about the large amount of migrants from the Pacific Rim, many of whom do not have English (or indeed French) as a first language and often do not speak it in the workplace. I’ve witnessed expressions of anger from Canadians at how difficult it is for Britons, Australians etc. to gain immigration compared to those from such areas (which all ties in with that other thread mentioning racial tensions). Contrasted with that I’ve had no end of support for my own application from Vancouverites, most of whom are well grounded with their own immigrant family roots (American, German, etc.). I've no idea what it's like elsewhere in the country, I must confess.

Most of my mates there have been met through shared interests, for me that's aviation, football (proper football!), travel, coupled with some guys I shared accommodation with. I think without any common ground forging new friendships is difficult, so play to your strengths, I guess. Is it really any easier to get on with strangers in the UK?

Looking forward to our move over there permanently, should the visas materialise, it's more a case of moving "back" to my "other" home rather than leaving Britain behind and embracing all things Canadian. There's no NEED to do that, diversity is supposed to be a good thing and there's nothing wrong with maintaining "duality" between your UK preferences and ideals and the Canadian way of life.

That was all very muddled, oh well

Cheers, Iain

Covenant

Sorry, Iain, sometimes I let rip without looking at all aspects, but like you, I think too many people have fallen into the "We need qualified people" yarn spun out by the Canadian Government.

In fairness, there seems to have been a move recently to address this very issue of professionally qualified people being unable to work out there, but, I doubt if there will be much change in the near future.

I think no matter how hard you try, being British is in a person's core if they have been brought up in this Country, and no matter where you go, you will always yearn for some aspects that you have left behind back in the UK.