robos

its not easy being a parent even harder to be a good one

what is a good parent

these people from ss sometimes have not had children and get their ideas from a book

as far as i can see if you do what you think to be right then you cant go wrong

doctors and social workers are too eager to give bad behaviour a name like adhd or ocd when really its just bad behaviour

good luck with your daughter

jan xx

moneypenny20

The more I think about The Sun's article, the more I think it's pure sensationalism. They "say" as she rolled up a cigarette, had she been doing that, don't you think they would have got a picture instead of which they show her hugging her mum. Ask any young teenager if they smoke or drink, and you will find wild exaggerations of behaviour. She is so young she shouldn't know about types of drinks etc but if family and friends go regularly to social clubs, she will be more aware.

Her mother is only 34 and has had another child - I had mine at that sort of age so no big deal there, they say the girl comes from a big family but don't say or show how many other children there are in the family - do they mean cousins etc?

How many 11/12 year old over the years have had their first experience of sex - I didn't but thousands do and it is only by luck they don't all get pregnant - I don't believe they all use contraception How many 11 year olds try a cigarette for the first time or alcohol?

It is all very very sad, but if we don't know the entire history and story of the family it is very unfair to judge. Saying that, it is still 100% wrong that she is pregnant at that age.

On the other hand many years ago the daughters were expected to be married with children by not much older than this girl is now. Society has changed but both male and female hormones have not

DunRoaminTheUK

Pikey parents are the cause for an entire generation of pikey kids that think that an ASBO is a measure of kudos.

Sometimes I just can't believe how irresponsible parents can be and are in reality still behaving like children themselves. The number of Mums that I've heard use the F word when talking to their children, in the street, is astonishing. I never believed in the class society UNTIL I spent a week (reluctantly) in Magaluf about 3 years ago. Jesus Christ, the place was like a pikey equivalent of Zion in "The Matrix".

I always used to laugh at my grandad when he made comments like "bring back national service" but by god he was right.

Hutch

Whilst I agree that it is a worldwide issue - the UK, whilst being nowhere near as bad as the USA, is ahead of most other developed countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_r...ncy/319869.stm

According to UNICEF's 'State of World Population 2003' report. The rates of teenage births per 1000 head of population are:

USA: 53
Russia: 30
New Zealand: 27
Iceland: 25
Slovakia: 24
Hungary: 21
UK: 20
Portugal: 17
Israel: 17
Czech Republic: 17
Poland: 16
Canada: 16
Australia: 16
etc etc for 30-odd other developed countries (bottom of the table is Korea, incidentally with just 3/1000)

Bella Donna

Interestingly, a study published this week shows that the US has the second highest newborn mortality rate - attributed in part to the high rate of teenage pregnancies which frequently lead to lower birthweight babies, and prematurities.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3850754.html

Whether we as parents like it or not, children are hitting puberty younger nowadays. When I was a teenager, the average age to menstruate - and by definition, be *capable* of getting pregnant - was 13. Girls did start their periods earlier, but it was unusual. This has come down quite considerably - the last estimate I read was an average age of 10 for girls. So I guess it follows that as children mature sexually at a younger age, together with increased exposure to sex from advertising, TV and films, there are going to be more teenage pregnancies.

Bella Donna

This guy thinks he has the answer to drug users...

http://www.politics.co.uk/News/domestic-policy/drugs/msp-unrepentant-over-methadone-contraception-plan-$432624.htm

Totally immoral though.

Cheetah7

Slightly going a bit off topic, I do get cross when people smoke in pregnancy.

I know someone that smoked during pregnancy and all the time in front of their child and didnt even stop when he was diagnosed with asthma.

Very selfish and I reckon if you have a habit, you do not put it before your kids and you do it where you affect nobody else but yourself.

As for the child in question, its a chain that needs to be broken. Pregnant and puffing at her age, what chance does her baby have?

Very sad.

tiredwithtwins

have to agree with you there mp........

Clippy

I remember being in hospital after I'd had my boy, and there was a heavily pregnant woman in the room next to me - several times a day they came in and did the heart monitor thing, I could hear it through my wall - I used to hold my breath as they struggled to find the beat. Then as soon as they unstrapped the machine, she'd be off downstairs for a cigarette

Bella Donna

This sort of reminds me of a girl I met ten years ago. I was in hospital having just had a D&C after a miscarriage and she was in the next bed. She was just 14 years old, had just had her fourth abortion, she was a heroin addict, drank vodka like the proverbial fish, and her boyfriend (aged 42) also told me there was a restraining order against her mother, who had tried to kill her twice. She also went off for a cigarette at every opportunity. I hate to think what has happened to her - it was the saddest story I had ever heard.

Vash the Stampede

Of course it does, you great numpty - but it's on nowhere near the scale that you find in the UK.

Adolescent birth rates for females aged 15-19 in the UK = 55.5 per 1,000.

Adolescent birth rates for females aged 15-19 in Australia = 19.8 per 1,000.


Source.

FWIW, I confess to being absolutely disgusted by the Australian statistics.

Wendy

It says the UK is 28.4% per 1,000


Still higher I know, but not nowhere as bad as the USA with 54.4%

Vash the Stampede

Excuse me?! Have you seen the warnings on cigarette packets these days? Have you seen the wealth of information on the subject in schools? In any case, her mother is an adult; I think it's only reasonable to assume that she knows the harmful effects of smoking when pregnant!

Public schools have sex education; she has no excuse for getting pregnant if she didn't want to.

I am just staggered by your attitude; are you suggesting she is not to blame for her predicament, and has no way of comprehending the consequences of her actions?

I agree that her mother should share some responsibility, but nobody held a gun to this kid's head and forced her to get drunk and pregnant. Nor did anyone ram cigarettes down her throat and force her to smoke them.

Bottom line: she knows better; this was a lifestyle decision. She must take responsibility for her own actions; she can't just pass the buck and claim ignorance (especially if she also wants to claim social service benefits!)

I was, but sometimes I wonder how serious I am...

Vash the Stampede

I'm so sorry I've offended you, Wendy.

You say:

That is not what I'm saying! This is not about growing up on a council estate and/or having no money; it's about living responsiblity and taking responsibility for one's actions instead of living for the moment and expecting society to pick up the pieces.

You also say:

That's exactly what I am getting at! I agree with you entirely.

FWIW, I come from a working class family myself; we rarely had any money, we and although we didn't live in welfare (my father worked hard to provide for us until his untimely death when I was 16 years old) most of our clothes and furniture came from charity shops because we couldn't afford anything better. We never lived in council housing, but there were a few times when it was touch and go!

So please don't think that I consider myself superior to you, or that I look down on people on the basis of their socio-economic status, because that is definitely not the case.

I am just sick and tired of the general moral decline in Western society. So few people seem to care about the consequences of their actions these days; it's all about the thrill of the moment. Modern kids are too often taught that they have "rights", but rarely taught that these are balanced with a set of corresponding responsibilities.

My wife is a school teacher, and there are times when I get chills down my spine upon hearing of her latest clash with a difficult student. They are frequently aggressive, loud, arrogant and utterly irresponsible - and their automatic response to any form of discipline is "I know my rights! You can't do (x), (y), (z) to me! I'll sue you!" etc. etc.

Who is going to tell these kids that there are rules they have to obey - and ensure that those rules are enforced? Their parents? Apparently not. Their teachers? Apparently not. Their neighbours? Apparently not. The law? Apparently not.

Nobody is allowed to touch them because they have all learned their "human rights" off by heart and they know exactly what they can get away with.

Political correctness has given power and "rights" to children who are simply too immature to use those rights responsibly. It has also disempowered the very people who have traditionally been responsible for providing the necessary guidance and authority that would help to make those children responsible and productive members of society.

This latest "teenage mum" has actually been complicit in a criminal act: underage sex. But because underage sex is now so common, many people will hardly bat an eyelid! It is illegal, yet it is incredibly common. If this was the case with murder, imagine the public outcry! But because underage sex is often seen as a "victimless crime", it seems to get passed over with a knowing wink or a careless shrug.

It is not, of course, a victimless crime at all; the poor baby of this child will now suffer as a result of her young mother's irresponsibility. Perhaps history will even repeat itself...

I agree that parents don't always know what their children are up to, and can't be expected to know all the time; but surely it must be admitted that this child had a woeful role model in her mother - who could not possibly have been ignorant of the fact that her child is a smoker and a drinker.

Where was the mother in all of this - and equally, where was the father?

You are correct when you say that we don't know all the facts - but by the same token, what sort of facts could possibly mitigate the horror of this situation? What sort of facts would go some way towards making it better, explaining the events, and/or reducing the culpability of the people involved?

I am just utterly gobsmacked by the entire scenario. If this is the future of society, I weep for it.

Wendy

I'm over it now, don't worry.


I do think that in this case the girls mother is probably to blame, she hasn't really made her daughter face up to the consequences of her actions.

I was a bit of a bugger when I was growing up, my mum didn't know any of it. She'd have skinned me alive had she known.

I'd get drunk with my mates at 13 and I started smoking at 12. I'd make damn sure she never saw me like that though. She didn't know I smoked until I was 16 when I told her, even though I had a one year old baby.

I did know what I was doing and I did take responsibility for it. I agree that that is where there is a problem. Every one these days passes the blame to the next person and I too hate to think about what it's going to be like in say 10 years time.