Originally Posted by Beoz

Second rate products. Microstation kicks Autocad and as you said Smartplant kicks Plant 3D. Yes Inventor is nice, hard to split against Solidworks.

Originally Posted by Amazulu

I can use Microstation (currently) and AutoCAD and they are pretty much of a muchness - each has their strong and weak points. AutoCAD is significantly cheaper than Microstation if you're buying. Autodesk have a subscription option too - which is much more cost effective. Microstation is massive here as the mining industry uses it

Originally Posted by Beoz

I think you will find that's incorrect. Dollar for dollar they are about the same price, however Autodesk encourages you to buy the bundled suite, most of which sits on the shelf collecting dust. You can get Microstation under subscription too. There's nothing you cannot get under some type of subscription these days, in fact that's what tech companies want you to do. Upgrade each year and pay a subscription to get that upgrade.

I gave Microstation Connect a run the other day, not a big fan of the ribbon but that's the way it all goes these days. But there's some awesome new stuff in there. The parametric solid modelling is a winner.

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle

Automation and electronic choices are already available to plenty in the west. When it comes to my industry it's the punter that makes the choice on whether they switch from physical delivery of mail to paper and when it comes to financial delivery where security is key they are being reluctant to the point of obstinance.. Hardly anyone is swapping to electronic statement delivery when it comes to things like EOFY share reports and statements etc. The choice is there, people aren't taking it. Much to my personal chagrin, I must add.

Which is a clue to when faced with the choice of taking up automation of physical things like transportation. Whereas the Asians are used to being told how things will run by their leaders and those in power. Hence I expect this automation revolution is going to come to us from the East..... Tsunami style, once it's mostly completed the east. That includes India as well. They will be well in front and basically, in control of the production and systems behind autonomy, I now believe.

There's a real resistance by a huge core of people to anything Automated and not in their own control in the West.

Originally Posted by Amazulu

Fair enough and as Bentley are not transparent with their pricing and I've never bought it, I'll take your word for it. I use CAD mainly to produce schematic and wiring diagrams, so only scratch the surface of capability. I prefer using AutoCAD but as mining uses Microstation, have to use it to. I find them to be pretty much the same. AutoCAD Electrical is useful but when I have to cad conform, which breaks the functionality, it's pretty useless for my needs. If I have to do any kind of layout work (which is rare), I'll use 3D modelling - or just simple 2D if it's straightforward

Originally Posted by Shard

The chief economist of the Bank of England has warned that the UK will need a skills revolution to avoid "large swathes" of people becoming "technologically unemployed" as artificial intelligence makes many jobs obsolete.

B of E on automation risk

Not entirely sure what the 'skills revolution' will be?

Originally Posted by GarryP

To me the whole "but is it really artificial intelligence" thing rapidly goes up it's own arse, particularly when the philosophers stick their oar in and try to say nothing for 3 hours straight because they love the sound of their own voice. I like to keep it simple - if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. Particularly if it does something useful. You could rightly call the current deep learning stuff pattern recognition. But when it displays more 'intelligence' than half the human race, I'm happy saying it's intelligent, even if it's just layered neural nets.

Originally Posted by Wol

(Just come back in to this thread)

The "IS a duck" meme actually doesn't work: lots of "AI" solutions presently in operation meet the "Duck" criterion very well up to a certain point - it's when you find yourself going through the same menu items for the tenth time or are told that it will put you onto a "real" person (you should be so lucky <g>) that the simulation is obvious.

For a civil aircraft, or an autonomous car, when the duck metaphor fails you are in deep doo-doo. At least with your bank you can hang up.

I reiterate: much of the AI movement is living in a different reality regarding critical mission realtime operations, and politicians - who will have to allow/licence autonomous vehicles have been taken in by impressive demonstrations.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse

I 'spoke' with a bot from my bank this morning. It went through all my questions, and responded very politely, but concluded that it couldn't help me. It said, quote 'Sorry, you'll need a human to help you with that'

Originally Posted by Shard

The technology is not there yet on communication, possibly the hardest nut to crack.

Originally Posted by Beoz

I like this bit.

Fourth Industrial Revolution could be "on a much greater scale" than anything felt during the First Industrial Revolution of the Victorian era.

What an odd thing to say. The industrial revolution created jobs. Maybe that's what the skills revolution is. Mass job creation. With unemployment at historic lows in the developed world this could mean really bad things - like can't find enough people to perform the most basic of tasks.

Originally Posted by GarryP

Don't underestimate what the automation can already do (before they really bring deep learning to bear). Even if it just deals with the issue 30% of the time, and reduces the "information gathering" element to automated on the other 70%, then that could allow them to cut their call centre staff by two thirds.

Originally Posted by Shard

It's actually sloppy thinking. There will not be sufficient skilled roles once the machines get a bit smarter and much more deployed. The politicians and central bankers should be mysing on how to restructure the economy so that the spoils of automation are evenly distributed.

Unemployment isn't at historic lows, merely the measurement of employment. Ask a millienial.
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