UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Mar 16th 2010, 3:58 pm
#1
Fighting my corner
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
"The applicants did not contribute to the UK economy, in particular, they paid no UK tax to offset the cost of any increase in the pension"
European Court of Human Rights
European Court of Human Rights
The European Court of Human Rights rejected an appeal from a group of pensioners by an 11 to 6 majority. The group wanted to receive increases in line with inflation.
The decision has saved at least £500m a year for the government, which said that its first responsibility was with pensioners living in the UK. The expatriate pensioners say they have been fighting "tooth and nail" against the UK government in an eight-year court battle.
Pensioners who have moved abroad want their UK state pensions to rise in line with inflation each year. Inflation-proofing only applies to UK pensioners who live in the European Economic Area or in 15 other countries, but not in some Commonwealth states.
Mar 16th 2010, 5:13 pm
#2
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
More than half a million UK pensioners living overseas will continue to have their pensions frozen after a European court decision. Pensioners who moved to countries such as Australia and Canada only receive the level of pension paid at retirement - which might be only £6 per week.
The European Court of Human Rights rejected an appeal from a group of pensioners by an 11 to 6 majority. The group wanted to receive increases in line with inflation.
The decision has saved at least £500m a year for the government, which said that its first responsibility was with pensioners living in the UK. The expatriate pensioners say they have been fighting "tooth and nail" against the UK government in an eight-year court battle.
Pensioners who have moved abroad want their UK state pensions to rise in line with inflation each year. Inflation-proofing only applies to UK pensioners who live in the European Economic Area or in 15 other countries, but not in some Commonwealth states.
Mar 16th 2010, 9:47 pm
#3
Fighting my corner
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
It will have serious implications for my wife and her teacher's pension.
Mar 16th 2010, 10:52 pm
#5
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
I take it they wheeled another bunch of cowboys in to run the highest court in the land. I wonder if any of those voting against understood the concept of a contributory pension.
Mar 16th 2010, 10:54 pm
#6
Fighting my corner
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Mar 16th 2010, 11:17 pm
#7
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Just a quick look into it and it looks like a bit of both. The state pension part is frozen but the statutory public service pension is upgraded.
Last edited by MartinLuther; Mar 16th 2010 at 11:31 pm.
Mar 16th 2010, 11:36 pm
#8
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Mt Martha, Melbourne
Posts: 1,199
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Not a good outcome! The Aussie Gov probably won't be happy with it either as they'll have to keep dishing out benefits to poor UK pensioners - especially now with the pound so low.
So they are quite happy to still take your NI contribs whilst you are in Oz but not so keen on giving them back to you! Fortunately we both just fell into the new rules when we came out here so didn't have to continue to contribute.
Might be a lot of Aussie ex-pats heading back to Blighty at retirement time if the pound never recovers!
So they are quite happy to still take your NI contribs whilst you are in Oz but not so keen on giving them back to you! Fortunately we both just fell into the new rules when we came out here so didn't have to continue to contribute.
Might be a lot of Aussie ex-pats heading back to Blighty at retirement time if the pound never recovers!
Mar 16th 2010, 11:52 pm
#9
Account Closed
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 546
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
if poor uk pensioners can't afford to live in Oz or qualifiy for an Oz pension using the same methods everyone else does ... if health permits -they should go back to the UK....
Mar 17th 2010, 1:17 am
#11
Fighting my corner
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
I hope so!
Mar 17th 2010, 1:30 am
#12
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Expats moving back to UK might have a problem too if they want a state pension from OZ .
You can only claim it if you reside in OZ, so if you move back then hit 67 or whatever it is now, doesnt matter how many years you worked in OZ you wont get the state pension.
This is not superannuation, but the means tested aged pension.
Mar 17th 2010, 2:10 am
#13
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Expats moving back to UK might have a problem too if they want a state pension from OZ .
You can only claim it if you reside in OZ, so if you move back then hit 67 or whatever it is now, doesnt matter how many years you worked in OZ you wont get the state pension.
This is not superannuation, but the means tested aged pension.
You can only claim it if you reside in OZ, so if you move back then hit 67 or whatever it is now, doesnt matter how many years you worked in OZ you wont get the state pension.
This is not superannuation, but the means tested aged pension.
UK state pension is an insurance scheme and so is the equivalent of super whereas the Aussie aged pension is the same as the UK's social welfare pension.
Mar 17th 2010, 3:01 am
#14
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 708
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
Expats moving back to UK might have a problem too if they want a state pension from OZ .
You can only claim it if you reside in OZ, so if you move back then hit 67 or whatever it is now, doesnt matter how many years you worked in OZ you wont get the state pension.
This is not superannuation, but the means tested aged pension.
You can only claim it if you reside in OZ, so if you move back then hit 67 or whatever it is now, doesnt matter how many years you worked in OZ you wont get the state pension.
This is not superannuation, but the means tested aged pension.
If anyone doubts this, then feel free to do what the OP should have done and phone Centerlink for clarification.
Last edited by Hino; Mar 17th 2010 at 3:11 am. Reason: Had to run to the bog to vomit.
Mar 17th 2010, 4:56 am
#15
An Australian Citizen !!
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Terrigal - NSW Central Coast since June 2005
Posts: 1,237
Re: UK expats lose pension freeze appeal
This all refers to the long running saga of the UK state pension being "frozen" in various countries that do not have a reciprocal agreement with UK - eg Australia, NZ, SA, Canada to name the 4 countries where most British Expats are. If you live in the EU or USA or some other countries, your state pension will be uprated, even though we may all have paid in the same maximum contributions over the years. This is scandalous.
Any, and all, other types of pensions are not affected by this judgement.
The 8 year campaign to "persuade" the UK government to honour its commitment to all its state pensioners, wherever they may live and who have made their NI contributions over the years, to have their pensions uprated annually has resulted in court action in UK to the very top (House of Lords) and then through the ECHR at Strasbourg to their Grand Chamber (Appeal Court). This bad result means that this particular case is now dead in the water and the UK government can continue to treat with impunity the many thousands of UK pensioners who have chosen to spend their later years with their offspring and their families in foreign lands.
The two main arguments put forward by the government as their defence are (A) they can't afford it !! They would have to afford it if there were no expat pensioners and we all lived in UK and (B) as we don't live in UK any longer we do not contribute to the pension pot any more through taxes etc. Nor, of course, do those pensioners living in UK who rely on the state pension as their only income and are therefore below the lowest tax threshold (currently approx 9500 sterling from age 65). At the latest count, there was approx 15 billion pounds in the NI war chest gathering interest instead of being used for its intended purpose to keep pensioners out of hardship.
Should there be a change of government in UK in the next few months the situation will not change - the Conservatives are not in favour of changing the status quo and the Lib Dems (who are more favourable to this issue being changed) will only be the "balancing" party in the event of a hung parliament and are not likely to be able to affect any major change.
At the end of the day, if you've paid in for 44 years (now reduced to 30) you should get the index-linked pension no matter where you now happen to live or, conversely, and more controversially, no one should get the increases. It should not be decided by residence.
My apologies for the rant but this is an issue very close to my heart. I often wonder having completed 25 years service with the Royal Navy some years ago whether it was all worth it. Oh well, musn't let the b******s get us too far down.
