GarryP

Oh that just the garden variety trump lies - you basically have to assume that if he's opening his mouth, he's lying.

Sessions however; that was under oath. If he had an ounce of decency he would have already resigned. Otherwise we can look forward a long drawn out lynching. His position is untenable.

As I've said before, I think it's pretty obvious that Trump is involved, up to his neck, and the sooner the GOP realise they are going to have to impeach him, the less time they will collectively spend in the wilderness. That's the positive from all this - the demonstration that the GOP cannot be trusted.

Beoz

Short memory. Read back through the thread. Its all there including your Lib Dems thing.

Beoz

Your trashy article has a lot of flaws.

Firstly it says "And almost every major claim made in it appeared to be false."

Then it says stuff like this.

TRUMP: "According to the National Academy of Sciences, our current immigration system costs America's taxpayers many billions of dollars a year."

THE FACTS: That's not exactly what that report says. It says immigrants "contribute to government finances by paying taxes and add expenditures by consuming public services."

The report found that while first-generation immigrants are more expensive to governments than their native-born counterparts ..........

So what Trump said is actually TRUE.

You've been had again.

OzTennis

All False statements involving Donald Trump | PolitiFact

Beoz

Where do you find this trash?

I particularly like this one.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/06/donald-trump/president-trump-says-109-people-were-affected-trav/

"We had 109 people out of hundreds of thousands of travelers and all we did was vet those people very, very carefully."

True statement but the article tries to sell on thousands being vetted ....... ooooops ..... we mean affected ..... just ignore that last bit .... ho ho ho.

Keep throwing them at me. This is so much fun.

Amazulu

I see (but am not surprised) that you mentioned nothing of his lauding CPO Owens and the acknowledgement of his wife and the standing ovation she received

Typical - but sad

OzTennis

You haven't addressed the 94 million out of the work force claim. I'd say that's as gross a lie as you can get. Most of the 94 million are 'out of work' because they choose to.

I'll keep them coming as you suggest and the distortion of the immigration report the lie/half truth you picked out of the many claims to scoff at is included:

Fact check: Donald Trump's claims on jobs, Obamacare, immigration and more - Chicago Tribune

'A paper which supports the Lib Dems in an election can't be far right'. Yes or No?

How is Trump going to defy history and 'revive dying industries'? e.g. in UK context, that's like reviving shipbuilding, coal, iron and steel, manufacturing. Will it be to force wages down to Chinese levels, huge subsidies to domestic industry to get them restarted, huge tariffs on imported goods? Will Economics be replaced by Trumpenomics?

Beoz

Did I mention I was a big fan of this fact check.

TRUMP: "We will provide massive tax relief for the middle class."

THE FACTS: Trump has provided little detail on how this would happen. Independent analyses of his campaign's tax proposals found that most of the benefits would flow to the wealthiest families.

I like the way they say, Trump has provided little detail on this, then choose the "independent analysis" (what independent analysis) to beat up the rich.

Your choice of literature is just appalling.

Its got you gagging hook line and sinker. All pent up with rage and anger, you can't even see it taking you for a ride.

I love watching you deteriorate into the the abyss of left wing propaganda.

morpeth

Interesting discussion. Do Trump supports care that he exaggerates ? NO. Would Trump opponents ever be willing to have an open mind about positions he takes ? It seems not.

And the issue ? People out of work and poverty- such that people are so disenchanted that they would vote for someone like Trump. 40 some million on food stamps- the status quo simply isn't working, and that is why Trump won the election.

Actually if he starts controlling the broader that would have the tendency to increase wages, as would reducing imports and lowering taxes, reducing regulations. To date his plans don't seem to be specific enough to judge, hardly is either party offering much vision and boldness to deal with the situation (except Sanders).

OzTennis

Stick to substance and cut the meaningless phrases which are laughable. If anyone criticises Trump it's appalling choice of source (which apparently is because an independent Tax Policy Center did analysis on what Trump said he'd do in campaigning).

Only 6.6 percent of the cost of Trump's plan goes to cuts for the middle fifth of taxpayers, households making between $48,400 and $84,300 a year, according to the Tax Policy Center. By contrast, a whopping 47.3 percent goes to the top 1 percent, and nearly a quarter goes to the top 0.1 percent, all of whom make over $3.75 million a year.

To make matters worst, many middle-class families would actually see a tax hike under Trump's campaign plan, as NYU professor Lily Batchelder has found. That’s because Trump wants to increase the bottom tax bracket from 10 percent to 12 percent, eliminate head-of-household filing status for single parents and other caregivers, and get rid of personal exemptions.

Over to you.

OzTennis

I know Trump got elected, why and that he appeals to sufficient people to get elected.

It's a sad state of affairs surely if Trump supporters really couldn't care that he 'exaggerates'? Lies and half truths would be closer to the mark?

It's a sad state of affairs when the most prosperous nation on earth feels little hope and that's why he got in?

Trump promised to 'make America great again' as though the wheels had fallen off and the country was no longer the most prosperous nation on earth. It turns out that he pinched the slogan from Reagan who used it in 1980; Trump adopted it in 2012 and admitted in 2015 he didn't know Reagan had used it.

People out of work sure - fact - 4.8% of the work force; same as the UK nearly 1% lower than Australia. The unemployment rate in the USA was 10% in October 2009 and at the start of Trump's administration was 5.2% lower than it's peak. '94 million people out of work' he says lying (exaggerating if you must) by a factor of at least 4.

Beoz

Where is Trumps tax plan? To the best of my knowledge its still being worked out. Unless you've tapped into something I can't see? You've regurgitated lots of figures here - based on what? Something you read on the Tax Policy Center - where did they get these from?

The "touted" refinement of the tax brackets are designed to cut tax for all. If the wealthy see a greater percentage and subsequent dollars at the end of it, so what? They earn more, they pay more in tax, and still will - why the resentment?

Beoz

Where are these lies you keep talking about? Every shred of lying evidence is speculation and been easily dismissed. Do you just believe what the Guardian and your Facebook friends peddle?

In August 2007 it was 4.6%. Lower than your 5.2%.

You conveniently picked the height of the GFC. Nice work. No cigar unfortunately.

GarryP

And now we have Pence, in the dock, discussing homeland security issues on his private, unsecured, email account - that was hacked.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...d-aol-governor

And after the trump cabal made such a thing of Hillary's email server. It's a shame they have been hoist with their own petard

And the lesson of the day kiddies is - don't go rubbishing the intelligence community, particularly when you are traitorously colluding with a foreign power; for spies are subtle and quick to lay out your dirty linen in the press. If they have this, I think it's pretty certain they have Trump's golden shower video too - and want him on a short lead, or gone.

morpeth

It is not just people who are "officially" unemployed . but those who have stopped looking for work, those who can only find part time or temporary agency jobs, those who work but in effect are the working poor, all of whom are struggling. Then the issue of real wages and medical insurance costs. Sure some areas of the country are doing better than several years ago, but that doesn't change reality for millions of Americans. The over 40 million people who rely on food stamps is over 10% of the population.

You are right a sad state of affairs that got him elected.

Whether he consciously lies I don't know, I think worse is he seems to grab parts of information he "hears" ( as from what I understand he avoids reading") and takes from it what suits his political message for the week- so if he said 94 million out of work, whom does that include ? Probably the number came form somewhere whether relevant or not.

Relax, people have 4 years to complain and claim they are moving to Canada or the sky will fall on their heads, and so forth. The Congress has shown itself quite able to obstruct progress of any real sort, and a lot of judges believe that social activism is somehow part of their job.