South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Some two thousand people marched in Perth CBD on the weekend, demanding the Federal Government bring in farmers from South Africa under a similar package that was recently under taken for those fleeing war zones in Syria. The idea was presented by Immigration Minister Dutton, rather a darling of the right. The difference being of course is that South African farmers to date, experience what many South Africans experience, on a daily basis. That being crime.
If the repossession of 'white' farms does indeed take place, certainly the issue can be retuned to as 'race' would certainly be a consideration for persecution. At the moment not though. While all South Africans should be looked at on a case by case basis no special "Syrian' type arrangement should be on the cards for now for any particular group from that country.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Tons of South Africans are already in the WA regions. Many didn't want to continue with farming and took up white-collar jobs, either in the agriculture industry or other professions. The valuable and productive farmland is already taken and is worth millions so it's a very hard field to get into unless you are very wealthy or are willing to just be a boutique small-scale grower.

I don't support the Government giving South Africans a special visa category just because they are a growing political lobby here. Lots of other countries with worse crime problems. If the white farmers get a special visa because their land is appropriated, does that mean everyone in a communist country can also get a special visa? See what a can of worms this opens.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Indeed there are. South Africans appear to hold some clout in both certain WA and QSD electorates.


Introducing a special category for South African farmers though is highly indicative of Dutton's preferences and prejudges. It certainly not be entertained. It has the risk of further stigmatising Australia's migrant intake by bringing race into the equation. There are many on the Right, who would gladly support the notion that South Africa is a failed state and use that country as an example against multi cultural aspects that have increasingly defined Australia over recent decades. Though government policy of record migrant intake, itself works in the favour of those as well of course.
Dutton is a rather dangerous person, or whom has the potential to be with his views and his call for South African farmers to be settled in a 'civilised' society goes a way towards explaining his thinking. No such thoughts of compassion to other ethnic groups of course whose plight is immediate and state of terror clearly defined. Thankfully the Foreign Minister a little more tactful in diplomatic niceties than the former traffic cop from the Banana State.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Not only unwarranted at this place in time, but rather cold footed by the Farmers Association of South Africa as well I believe.


Removing farmers through such a policy, would have of course played into the hands of certain extreme members of the Right of the ANC whom advocate the removal of white farmers and the land given to majority folk as happened in Zimbabwe.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Another thought that came to mind was the creation of a mini Afrikaner homeland within the confines of the West Australian pastoral region. The folk would be semi independent, with own school and hospital and language would be Afrikaans.


The area would prove a tourist attraction to a somewhat barren landscape as well as addressing those from the city demanding the Australian government do something to help kith and kin.


What better than a 'homeland' in a free state in a rural environment where the farmers can live their own lives? A sort of Orania that now occupies the South African landscape back home.


Longer term residents of the area would of course be given to choice to stay. The requirement would be to pass a language test after a reasonable period of time. For the proposition to work Afrikaans must be the language and culture guaranteed.


As much as Dutton and other advocates would prefer to believe it will take extreme force to remove most farmers from their land and more to remove them from culture. Many do not immediately take to English language or culture, quite contrary in fact.
Not something most would give up in a hurry.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

A new sub division could be established in WA. Lets call it Oranje to make our South African farmers feel welcome. The beleid (policy) would be all buitestanders (people from other regions ) would be required to show ID before allowed entry to control who comes in and to keep trouble makers out ......Liking it more by the minute.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Your clear hatred of white South Africans has been clearly noted.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Clearly taken the bait. What trumps my alleged 'hatred' of white South Africans of course is the retention of the Rainbow Nation. A grandiose term if ever. Unlike you I am a real fan of South Africa, and hope all colours can live in a sort of harmony. Foreign interference has no part to play as this time of proceedings in that country. Having a matter of some delicacy hijacked by Right wingers with own agendas must be challenged.


Such simplistic rhetoric as above further displays an inability to remote engage of matters of any importance. Better stick with something you may of a knowledge about.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

The silence would be deafening :lol:

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

You can delete post #6 then if that is truly the way you feel.

Carry on.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

You really are out of your depth on yet another thread. ROTFL at what passes as a retort on your front.


Your apparently a supporter of Dilly Dutton's plan to import farmers from South Africa just displays the general lack of knowledge on the matter with yet another Aussie simplistic answer to a rather far more intricate matter that requires reflection not knee jerk racial reaction which would indeed worsen the overall situation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

I would possibly support a special category visa with certain conditions. Something like the 489 where you have to live and work in a rural location for a certain amount of time. Except make it a condition of the visa that people using it are temporary only for a set number of years - maybe 10? - and they have to prove annually that they are living in rural areas and working in farming. If the reason they need protection is based on their farms being taken then surely farming is what they want to do?

However, if it's offered to South African farmers whose lives are in danger then it should also be offered to farmers from other countries. White, black, or green with purple polka dots. Not just white farmers from one country.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Thing being of course is that I doubt many Afrikaans speaking farmers would want to move to Australia to farm. If so it would be unlikely on the terms mentioned above.


I have known a few rural farmers whom met over in South Africa, not like Australia very much, after coming to look. while crime is an issue there is a certain freedom, beyond the security measures in place that people find less obvious in Australia.


Sure Australia will likely work better for English South Africans, whom can adapt more readily to suit a given situation, where ever they wash up, the Boers are less willing to leave their land, their culture and language to play second fiddle in a country like Australia. A number do not particularly care for 'English' much and this situation exists equally in South Africa, between the white tribes.
Hence the reason I gave to give that section of the white community their own land with the ability of cultural retention. Other wise unless there is total melt down, unlikely to work.


There is little need for a special category at this stage. If anything it will play into the hands of the fireballs whom may well increase their racist agenda to remove whites from the country with farmers in particular. This in turn, may result in a counter reaction of some ferocity by elements of besieged 'whites' , although the day has likely well passed since they could change direction through force, it could be rather nasty for all hues within The Rainbow Nation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Of course crime alone is no reason for a special entry of tens of thousands. Much of the world is unsafe, most of South America for example.


The big difference is, while crime has always impacted other races within South Africa under apartheid, the minority white folk were largely immune from this. Come majority rule this was no longer the case of course, Saying that black middle class and Indians are targeted as well.
A visa to escape crime would in fact be open to many millions of all races in that country if applied fairly.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Really. When Malema, clearly a racist and nutter, has such a policy that has the support of the president and most in parliament, you know this could lead to genocide forming.

Better to be proactive than to watch this occur with all the warning signs clearly evident.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

If I was still in S.A. I would also leave. It may not happen overnight but S.A. may well turn into another Zim.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Malema said: "The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice." And the parliament voted for this ...... ouch

That's heading in a very evil direction. It's all about payback for past wrongs.

So here's the situation. If you are a white SA farmer, you lose your house, you lose your livelihood. You are on the street with no roof over your head and no money. And you face death.

Given we are aware of the situation looming, it's a fair argument for Australia to be proactive like we have done with other politically persecuted people.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

No it is certainly not. That would be giving into radicals, whom less face it exist in every, or most countries. The Liberal Party of Australia, has more than enough of its own on another level. Many countries have had radicals with the platform of returning those not deemed to belong, due to colour or race.


Such a move by Australia, although thanked but no thanks by the South African Farmers Association would indeed weaken the position of remaining farmers IMO. even if taken up by only a few. It would likely provoke conflict within family, with those wishing to leave perhaps on behalf of the kids, one assumes mostly women, and those wanting to see it out, mostly men, whom feel a very close connection with the land and their position on it and as a proud race.


With a country willing to accept the Boer, radicals may well feel applying even more pressure would further their aim to rid the nation of its Boer, which in turn over time, would likely see greater hardship for the urban whites with questions about a continues presence at some stage in that country.


This may or may not come regardless, but we are not at that point at the moment, and the best thing ex Queensland cops come politicians, with high hopes for greater office whom posses a distinct right wing bend in his political approach, would be to keep it buttoned and focus his mind on people really in need being persecuted and killed because of race or from war zones, the role the humanitarian intake is supposed to be about.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

'If' is not criteria to act recklessly upon. It is not wanted by The South African Farmers Association nor the South African government, whom, one may assume, would not have attacked the proposal by Australia so strongly, although they rightly were offended by the lack of diplomacy on the part of the Ugly Digger(Dutton) Sounds more like political manoeuvring on his part to further elevate his position to the extreme right of the Liberal party and their clones.


You need to understand African politics a little before quoting words as deeds by a fire brand. The position being since majority rule, the white tribe, has maintained their position in regards to wealth and considerable influence considering numbers in the nation as a whole.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

And Australia may turn into an Asian country at some point down the road.


No idea if you are really South African, and if so, an English or Afrikaner, but one reason the Afrikaner somewhat despised the 'English' was they felt they had a foot in both countries. If South African I'm sure you'll be aware of the saying, a little crude with regards to the matter in Afrikaans?


While the future is not ours to know, the comparison with Rhodesia/Zim is hardly comparable on scale. South Africa is a far different country. Obviously easy to make superficial comparisons.


Whether individual South Africans feel the desire to leave is up to them. Plenty leave countries for places they think will provide a better life. Many also to escape crime.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

The persecution of white farmers has been widely reported, and recent political events in SA indicate it could get progressively worse. On that basis I don't see any reason why Australia would not bring in more South Africans subject to such persecution- and the actions of a past regime, just as actions of the past South Vietnam government-shouldn't/wasn't be a factor in regards to the Vietnamese refugees.

Yes, SA different from Zimbabwe and other African countries for that matter, yet there are some striking similarities to what happened to Zimbabwe and current trends in SA- expressions of retribution, desire to seize land, growing crime statistics.

Best to ignore ideology and do what Australia has done for many other groups, and in this case integration would be easier because of shared cultural similarities.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

There are examples of Menonite in South America, let alone the Amish in America, where there original language has been retained, and provided a productive benefit to the host countries. I can't really see a negative for Australia of providing refuge to the white farmers of South Africa. And better to be proactive before the situation gets worse.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

We don't live in South America or America.

Csn you see the benefit of providing refuge to Syrian farmers who are being persecuted? Howabout Afghani farmers?

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

I agree it is being high lighted by certain individuals and political groups with alternative motives rather than the reality in mind.
One really should look further at who is promoting such angst and consider if a closer to home dimension is not being sought. The logistics and reality certainly have not been.
The object being of course to discredit multi cultalralism and developing world migration but attempting to show a break down in the country in question and as thus to promote such ideology as racism and assorted issues into main stream thought .


No there is not something similar to Zimbabwe at the moment. Could it happen? Well of course every thing is possible but some things les likely. Chinese ethnic folk could be forced out of Malaysia. Rohingya minority Muslim folk could be forced out of Burma. Oh wait that has already happened. Does your sense of compassion and justice not stretch towards people actually being brutalised at the moment? Or many other parts of the world for that matter where life is immediately in danger.


South Vietnam? Just where is the comparison there? Most that fled took it upon themselves and set out on very dangerous sea voyages on rickety boats, unwanted by most countries they washed up in. There was no grand plan to take out more than necessary as the American final withdrawal was little short of chaotic.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Well the negative is that most don't want appear to want to leave for Australia at this time anyway. Quite some negative, as have outlined the Afrikaner soul belongs to their own land, unlikely too many would wish to give up everything to play out roles as farm managers or workers. Now an incentive such as a dying wheat belt farming area with help to establish but with a degree of autonomy providing the freedom more used to, may attract a number.


A plan to make a Jewish homeland was briefly considered by Australia, given that group land to establish. That would likely work if a similar plan was drawn up for a Afrikaner land within. Unlikely for sure, but South African farmers are highly unlikely to move en mass to Australia to become 'slaves' or farm worker 'coolies' I'm afraid.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Afghani and Karen (Burmese) certainly edging out a life for themselves across numerous Australian country communities. Some African as well.
Great to see and should have more people wiling to settle in the rural regions.


I would suggest though South African farmers would not be quite so willing to do such basic work. They are not generally of the temperament and perhaps en mass would not be quite as obliging as Dilly Dutton may prefer to believe.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Sounds like many in parliment agree with the views of a racist nutbag.

South Africa‘s parliament passed a motion, 241 votes to 83, that could lead to the seizure of land from white farmers without paying them compensation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

I was just giving examples of communities that emigrated to to particular locations and were of a benefit to teh host nations.

I see this as having two parts (a) helping a persecuted people (b) and as a practical matter, would such emigrants integrate fairly easily, and be of a benefit especially under a program of location required in rural regions for a number of years. The seizure of farms without compensation ( which sadly will hurt the poor in SA eventually as has been seen elsewhere in Africa) combined with targeted violence against white farmers reason enough- I agree simply the increasing crime rates alone perhaps not a sufficient justification. Waiting too late may result in a Rhodesia-type situation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Your concern for the motivations of politicians advocating a special program for SA farmers is besides the issue- would such a program be a humanitarian move by itself, and would it be of a benefit to Australia.

Good point that around the world there are people being persecuted- Christians in the Middle East, Muslims in Burma, and all cannot be let in at once. And maybe farmers in SA prefer to go to places like ex-Soviet Georgia, or in some cases other African countries, offering them a continued farming lifestyle. Whatever one's views about multiculturalism, common sense is SA farmers would integrate well.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Many farmers have left some time ago.
The S.A. govt. and other African govts. have always supported Mugabe. This means they think alike. Doesn't this indicate that the same situation as in Zim. is possible in S.A.? Only country which took an anti-Mugabe position was Ian Khama from Botswana.
And I'm neither English nor Afrikaans and I still know S.A. and her politics rather well.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Whilst there are lots of persecuted people around the world, this one was voted for by parliment and therefore provides a way for the rest of the world to be proactive early.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Well no it is not besides the issue, but in fact is the issue. Politicians to the right in Australia advocating such a move out of self interest without much thought just how it complicates the issue in South Africa.
Such a move has little to do with humanitarian motives but pure politics.
The impact on the country with the remaining people of that race, would likely be enormous. Are you playing into the hands of extremists ?
It does not amount to common sense on any level at all to aid those of that countries far right, for that it what they are, whom will cheer out loud with the beginning of the end of a certain minority within that country.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Well no it does no such thing. Nothing has been acted on and there are no signs it will be from my knowledge for now. As in Australia, some awful policy is put before parliament and in politics all sides, especially those that wield influence must be addressed. Actions speak louder and at the moment there is little sign that the new leader wishes to advocate destruction to a large part of the economy not to mention other consensus.


The thing to do is make the government there aware they are being held to account but not to give in to radicals whom regards there is no place for the white man in RSA.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

You mean like Dutton has already done? Next will come sanctions. Sounds like we could be heading to the old days of apartheid with the shoe on the other foot. Full circle by chance? Sounds a bit like this conversation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

No I do not mean what Dilly Dutton has already done. More than likely influenced by Far Right web sites where the issue of South African farmers has become something of a 'cause celebre'.


Dilly Dutton was shooting from the hip, obviously without clarification on the matter with Foreign Minister, probably not PM.
But then he does appear to be an advocate of lower immigration so probably not entitled to be a full paid up member of your 'fan club' , but not a person we want anywhere near a leadership role.


No hardly apartheid. But some need to share greater spoils will be required and I suppose at 8% or so of the population the minority white tribe holding by far the greatest percentage of wealth will certainly be required to arrive at more imaginative ways to search for solutions if they are long term to flourish.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Your post confirms that you have political motives in your objection to arrangements for persecuted white farmers. As I posted my opinion based on whether Australia can help a persecuted people, and whether that help will be of a benefit to Australia.

How would you support the conclusion that "has little to do with humanitarian motives..." and is from "self-interest" ? Is this just a guess on your part ? Do you know any of the politicians advocating such a measure ? Have such public statements been made ?

So using that sort of logic, should all immigrants or migrants have a test of their political beliefs , and only beliefs you approve of should be let into the country ?

I agree though announcing such a policy could have a negative effect on SA- but I also remember a few similar conversations about white Rhodesians, and we have seen then what happened there. When leaders of SA express such clear racist statements and support in practice implementing racist steps- in particular ones that will hurt the SA economy- clearly there is at a minimum a potential problem, and judging from the press and South Africans I know many think it is quote probable over time SA will descend into a worse situation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

Greater share of the spoils? I thought South Africa was now a united nation? You are free to do what ever you like no matter your colour. If black people want to become farmers then do what the rest do ..... buy them.

How prejudice of you.

And by the sound of it, ALL farms go to black people (not some so hardly sharing the spoils) and white people end up without a home or a job. That's like the government here turfing you into the street and taking every penny you have (in your case isn't much). Combine that with the history of farmer murder encouraged by the nutter, that's enough for asylum seeking in my opinion.

By the way, you call Ditton dilly. Remember what we say when you stoop to name calling? You haven't got an argument.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

No I have no political incentives at all, but those advocating a hair brained scheme certainly do. I have already given you reason, that being white farmers in RSA have suddenly become 'cause celebre' of the right. Do you understand the meaning of that?


The Queen of the right wing propaganda machine in England , the dreadful, conceited, full of hatred Kate Hopkins is over there or has been doing a number on the 'plight of white south African' farmers in an attempt to further her career of hate, probably as a result of her LBC sacking and missing the lime light.


It doesn't end there, a whole swag of right wing western loonies are converging on the country (all quiet on the Muslim 'terror' front at the moment I suppose) The Swedish Jonas Nilsson but another, a charmer that wrote Anaracho Fascism Nature Reborn, whose doing an identical film project as are a certain hard core Canadian web site, not forgetting Lauren Southern and others .


Coincidence? No not a guess. The destruction of South Africa plays into the hands of certain elements out there.
If it can be shown a breakdown in civil society over there between race and chaos resulting, which surely would damage the economy if indeed thousands or tens of thousands of white farmers (how many would leave, up for debate, but we'll leave that, the intention is clear enough) the same groups will up their attacks on multi cultalralism in countries such as Australia.


I would not go to much on what certain elements of the press attempt to pass of as news.
There is an agenda at play here on all sides are mas evacuation is certainly not the way to go.
Such a move would wipe out most every 'dorp' and dorpie' in the process as many would become economically unsustainable.


Is Australia going to take in the shop keepers, the aged whites (now some of those are suffering with meagre pensions) and others, hey not forgetting the many thousands of homeless white folk living in shanties often side by side with their black majority compatriots? Not forgetting a lot of 'country side' Afrikaners are not particularly educated and would certainly require 'special visa's' to enter, or indeed is this only inclusive of a particular group, with an ill thought out plan by right wing side of politics, that do not have the best of intentions for RSA?

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

If the Afrikaner farmers want to come here as refugees, they can do what everyone else has to do, apply through UNHCR and then go to Manus Island or Nauru for processing. I don't believe in Afrikaner exceptionalism or why they should be allowed special dispensation or to jump the queue ahead of everyone else who wants to come here as a refugee.

The "they farm there, so they will farm here" logic is flawed; the bush and Outback aren't great expanses of empty just waiting to be utilised. They are not empty and are already utilised - owned by farmers and station owners. Some stations in the Outback are a million acres or larger. Your average Afrikaner farmer in South Africa isn't going to be able to sell their farm there and be able to buy in here. They won't have the cash. Farming is massively expensive and often requires huge amounts of debt and credit.

The days of just going out, staking a claim and farming it are long gone. All the viable land is taken, and anything that might have anything in the ground is also gone.

The hypothetical incoming Afrikaner refugees will need alternate employment in the regions, with the challenges that brings to Australians already here; they will either need something related through agriculture (with re-training likely necessary), or they will need to join the public service, which also will probably require re-training (and no guarantee positions for both husband and wife will be available in the same town).

So if Dutton was going to get through some kind of protection visa for them - I think the worst way to do it would be to tie it to regional settlement.

Someone brought up the Keren earlier - Katanning (in WA) has a successful population who now generally own their own homes and have proven highly employable. A lot of migrants from the Subcontinent are also leaving the cities to buy things like IGA franchises and petrol stations in the regions, making successful goes of those and integrating into these communities. There are models out there for Afrikaners to follow in a hypothetical refugee situation.

Re: South African Farmers For Oz?
 

I'm afraid trying your hand at African politics is looking as doomed failure as your venture into why Sydney deserves to be over whelmed and life quality waning in the process.


Ya Man, as we are speaking about South Africa are you purely 'onskuldige' or just plain 'onkundig? (innocent or ignorant) Do you have any idea about the dynamics of South Africa? Apparently not.


Do you have any awareness or knowledge of the extremity in economic circumstances experienced between black and white South Africans?
Pointless you pushing your neo liberal economic agenda in a situation where extreme inequality is fact. A country where until in recent history one group was very much advantaged over the majority. You write absolute nonsense.


There are many thousands of Afrikaner folk homeless now, many for decades since special privileges for poorly educated whites were removed after majority government.


Hardly surprising there is a few Right Wing nutters on the lose but at least there has not been a race way that some predicted nor has the minority white tribe lost much of their share of the wealth.


I agree Dilly is a bit 'soft' for such a politician as that but I'm a kind hearted sort of guy, sure others can think of more appropriate terms. And no it doesn't mean I don't have an argument, it means I have no respect for the person concerned.