scot47

I see Gough Whitlam (born 1916) died the other day. He too saw that the Empire had gone and it was time to bury the corpse. Alas the Establishment did not agree.

Gibbo

I believe that a referendum to change the status quo should only be voted on by native born people of that country. A referendum is totally different to a parliamentary election. I do not think that it is right that people who have lived in a country for less time than an expat should be allowed to vote and the expat is denied. The fairest, and simplest way, to decide who votes in a referendum, such as the recent Scots one, is only the resident natives of that country should have had the vote.
I would have, like many expat Scots, loved to have voted. You might think we have no rights but most were born ,reared, educated, worked and started families in Scotland and we didn't leave for any other reason than Scotland was being sucked dry, work was hard to come by and we wanted a better life for our children. We believe that an independent Scotland can prosper. I just wish I was young enough to see that happen.
One of the things on my bucket list is to have a Scots passport before I die.

OzTennis

Sounds good in theory but:

What about the people who live in Scotland, not native born, who run businesses, create wealth and employ people? No say?

What about the people who live in Scotland, not native born, who work, pay their taxes and spend money in local communities? No say?

What about the native born who have left, many a long time ago, who don't really know what things are like presently but have an image in their mind of the country as it was? A say to the exclusion of those above?

We're often not talking about people who just crossed the border near Carlisle or Berwick yesterday - many have lived in Scotland for longer than those who were born and left.

Is the Barnett formula which gives Scotland greater spending per head than England 'sucked dry'?

Gibbo

Again we disagree. Scotland provides more to the exchequer than it receives back in funding. Why do yo think Cameron didn't want Scotland to secede? However that was not what was being discussed.
I said, if you read my post properly, that only native resident Scots should have voted. I stand by that statement.
Expats have as much right to vote as non native residents. I,and I'm sure many expats, have spent a lot of money and time in Scotland over the years and are quite well aware of what life in Scotland is like now.
I would not expect to participate in a similar referendum in Australia,if that was appropriate - I suppose the closest thing would be a referendum on a republic.
Unfortunately none of your arguments will change my opinion. I have been a Scottish Nationalist for more years than I care to remember.I am not British, I'm Scots. I'd be less upset to be called Australian than British. That won't happen tho' as I still have my Scots accent!

GarryP

Well, I believe a referendum that changes the status of a region should need a double supermajority - but the reality is everyone was trying to make it as easy as possible for the separation to pass, hence the 16 & 17 year olds, the exclusion of those who already had jumped ship, the inclusion of those that had decided to be in scotland, etc., etc. Even then, they could fiddle the figures.

That it didn't should kill it - but of course it won't.

OzTennis

Just one small point that it has been SNP policy since before they were elected to Holyrood to extend the vote to 16 year olds. To get them involved in their future, to treat them as adults and all that ... and they have a greater propensity to vote SNP than any other party.

Gibbo

Just one small point to end with: under Scots law you are considered an adult when you turn sixteen, that's why so many English teenagers eloped to Gretna, so it is not surprising that the SNP wanted them to have the vote. They want them to be able to vote in normal elections as well.

Amazulu

16 year old's have marshmallow for brains and don't know shit

Giving them the vote is stupid and was a pathetic attempt by the hard-left SNP to buy votes

Wankers

scrubbedexpat098

There you go, skirting round the real issues again, quit sitting on the fence man haha

OzTennis

The 'runaway to Gretna to get married' option has of course been diluted a long time ago because 16 year olds can get married in England and Wales with parental consent, 18 without.

bcworld

I could be wrong but wasn't the 16 year old voting also supported by Labour and the Libdems?

paulry

OzTennis

Yes:

"Pressure is mounting to give 16-year-olds the vote in general elections after two more party leaders backed the move following the Scottish referendum where the age group was allowed to participate.

Labour and the Scottish National Party have joined the Liberal Democrats, who pledged to lower the voting age to 16 in their 2010 election manifesto, in backing the move, which would enfranchise more than 1.5m teenagers. The Conservative party has always opposed lowering the voting age." (as our Zulu friend so eloquently put)

cresta57

That & the fact that most young teachers when I attended school were lazy uni drop outs that were leftie leaning commie pinkos always going on strike.

Amazulu

Wankers

Socialism is mediocre politics for mediocre people