Rail's the way forward without a doubt. All electrified and powered by nuclear energy, should keep the greens happy. Plus it'll see me through to retirement.

The western Sydney airport has just been OK'd after 20 years. Acqaintance of mine moved close to the proposed site a while ago and immediately started protesting against the airport. Unlucky sport , if that doesnt get a rail link then it'll confirm that the government are dumasses.

Yep. Contract signed, ground works and design currently underway. Underground the whole route - 2020 finish. Good news for us is that the line will continue and terminate at Forrestfield - under 10mins from here (should have bought some property down there as it is pretty cheap). Also fares will be normal commuting ticket pricing and you can use your smartrider - unlike Brisbane and Sydney

UK ticket prices are mental but if you book in advance can be really cheap. I did London-Liverpool return in 1st class for GBP50 on Virgin. the trainline is a good website to book on

I think rail has had it myself..... Thing is people are looking at autonomous road transport without realising the full potential or too conventionally..... Like 300+ kmh vehicles and the potential to link up with 100's of passengers in convoy/platoons which can automatically uncouple at given points for door to door destination.

Perhaps easier if thought of as Rail on roads....

If a rail project is more than 20 years from completion then I seriously think it should be put on hold, whilst Autonomous sorts itself.

Lets put it this way, I doubt there will be any travel signals in 80 years time. So fill in the gaps backwards from that. The whole transportation game is about to be chucked up in the air and things we can barely imagine are going to happen.






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Well, convoys have already been demonstrated, particularly in trucks. Cuts fuel usage, etc. Think roadtrain on steroids, and TOTALLY impossible to pass on a two lane road.

They have also thought of trains that have carriages that decouple and recouple, rather than the whole lot stopping at a station.

I do tend to agree with you though - unless we are talking of something like hyperloop. The fixed costs are too high unless there is a key payoff (eg transonic speeds).

Oh, and trams is dead too.

Yep, which is why I always say that rail/airport links are too late - autonomous vehicles are more appropriate on every front.

oh, I don't think there will be traffic signals or signs within about 10-15 years.

So road and rail are both linear engineering methods, and both are built in corridors. Whilst we already have more road corridors than rail corridors, the only you can achieve speed is by canting around corners.

So build on existing or build new.

Existing for cost any day of the week.

So what do you do?

Do you shut down the M1 between Sydney and Newcastle, and move all freight and passenger vehicles onto rail. It will never happen. Can you move passengers onto buses when you upgrade the rail? Absolutely.

You upgrade rail. Far easier, far cheaper (Rail is a thinner corrider) far more environmentally friendly.

Happy days.

I can definitely see the rail corridors being used...... but in a totally different way, with transportation that can possibly move from the corridor onto road, with far far more traffic than it's current use. I personally think that's the high speed auto network sitting right there just waiting to be utilised. It will be on wheels (perhaps even maglev) rather than rail though.

It could be hyperloop, or it could be the high speed platoon network. The current rail network, especially in Aus, is certainly going to change in a dramatic way and fairly quickly.

I think trams are finished as well now..... Auto Uber and it's ilk is a far far better system. The genesis of the end of trams is here right now.... Hourly hire cars all over the inner burbs, as soon as they go Auto, thats the end....of all current public transport actually.

Most Aussie freeways aren't built for much more than 120km/h. Lanes are too narrow, the cant is not there, corners weaving around things. Its a complete rebuild. Then what? Hope for autonomous vehicles capable of travelling safely at +150km/h, government legislation. Australia is not very good at being the first. Better off with tried and tested medium speed rail.

That's great news, just as Sydney invests heavily in a tram system that is already looking like something of a white elephant. and has already blown out costs...


S

When you look at the behaviour of politicians on automation, it's clear that they just don't get what an upheaval it's likely to be for them. Not only are they going to need to be delivering the infrastructure that automated vehicles will need, public transport takes a big hit (at a minimum they are going to have to go automated themselves), taxis get battered to death, fines as a revenue source dry up, parking in the CBD isn't a thing anymore, poor signage will become a liability issue for them, etc.

Melbourne have had their '10 year plan' exercise recently, and automation was barely mentioned FFS.

We've got transport automation, delivery drones, and mass white collar unemployment; all coming over the horizon, all feeding off each other, in the foreseeable planning horizons of politicians. They don't even have a "Department of We're So F**ked" setup to address it yet.

Ahh well,

Well there's going to have to be a massive investment and development in infrastructure and auto building over the next few decades, so there will be a lot of jobs in that area for a while.

I dont think it will take much to upgrade the current rail corridor to high speed interstate Platoon vehicles plus with current freeways being utilised in a totally different way in the foreseeable future then they will probably be capable of higher speeds as well.

I dont think it's beyond the current road network to be upgraded to take large platoon type vehicles at very high speed in the not to distant future.... by that I mean perhaps 300kph on interstate trips. IE: Same time Melbourne to Sydney door to door as today by plane..... 3.5 hours.

I doubt they will push the top speed of vehicles appreciably, not in the 10-15 year timeframe. If you are turning trucks and cars into convoys to cut the fuel hit, you are going to focus on safety, not speed. In fact, I can see less car traffic between cities - just fly there and get an autonomous vehicle to get you everywhere at the other end.

It's kind of why hyperloop has a chance - the speed means 1h Mel<>Syd with less faffing at each end. Plus linear city to open more reasonably priced housing space.

I wonder if you could turn hyperloop into a new deal type employment project? Massively parallelise it? Get it done in 1 year.

Apparently that new tram out to Randwick and Kingsford is going to be a longer ride than the bus currently takes.

Oh well

I drove along Anzac Pde this morning. There must have been 60 blokes beavering away in the hot sun, in a 30 metre section, laying track.

Not really sure of the whole purpose of the thing. Seems like they just did because the corridor was already there. Seems to be the thing in Sydney at the mo. The state government have made so much cash out of stamp duty, lets build a tram if we have a corridor, no matter how useful it is.

An even bigger project is that West Connex. Massive. Then there's the metro. I reckon they will announce the tunnel to the Northern Beaches soon. Oh and an airport, without a train.

Wait until the Feds start kicking the coin around, and they will as building approvals have fallen off a cliff. You can kiss goodbye to a surplus anytime soon.

They don't like that Melbourne keeps beating them in the global liveability rankings. Melbourne has trams etc., so Sydney has to have better public transport.

I got my first Melbourne tram a few months back. What a pile of shit. Same with the MCG. Another pile oh shit. If you want to have a Sydney v Melbourne argument, step on up. You will be crushed. It always amazes me how Melbourne likes to always contest. Sydney doesn't give a shit. I guess that's what small man syndrome does.