Paris attacks/explosions
Nov 19th 2015 | 10:10 am
#106
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
What I'm saying (and have said from the beginning) is that walls and borders are a red herring. And your link demonstrates this (if you'd think about it).
Firstly, he was travelling around, through those borders, because he had a french passport. The whole refugee thing wasn't a player.
Second,
so it was the act of placing him 'on the other side of the line', and not dealing with the known issue of radicalisation in jails, that kicked off his terrorist career.
Third, THEY KNEW HE WAS A DANGER - but they didn't have him on a short enough leash to know what he was doing. In other words it's nothing to do with borders, it's to do organisation, intelligence and attention. And I'll hazard a guess that the reason the intelligence services didn't have these is because they have too many potential terrorists to keep track of (false positives).
The reality is you could have shut down all the borders, it wouldn't really have changed anything - all that needs to travel is an idea. The most dangerous individual is one with a brain - and he had a brain. Once radicalised he could attack via a variety of vectors, even without any other contact with an ISIS 'command'. Him going to syria should have been a cockup on the part ISIS, because it put him on the radar. He succeeded because the intelligence services failed (which you are not hearing about) - nothing to do with borders.
Firstly, he was travelling around, through those borders, because he had a french passport. The whole refugee thing wasn't a player.
Second,
so it was the act of placing him 'on the other side of the line', and not dealing with the known issue of radicalisation in jails, that kicked off his terrorist career.
Third, THEY KNEW HE WAS A DANGER - but they didn't have him on a short enough leash to know what he was doing. In other words it's nothing to do with borders, it's to do organisation, intelligence and attention. And I'll hazard a guess that the reason the intelligence services didn't have these is because they have too many potential terrorists to keep track of (false positives).
The reality is you could have shut down all the borders, it wouldn't really have changed anything - all that needs to travel is an idea. The most dangerous individual is one with a brain - and he had a brain. Once radicalised he could attack via a variety of vectors, even without any other contact with an ISIS 'command'. Him going to syria should have been a cockup on the part ISIS, because it put him on the radar. He succeeded because the intelligence services failed (which you are not hearing about) - nothing to do with borders.
Firstly if he was actually carrying a passport, which he would not have been, it would have been from Belgium.
Secondly, if you have borders where checks occur he would have come up on the radar (if he had a passport which you suggest) or he would have had a difficult time progressing further. If you transit with refugees across borders where there are no checks, without docs, you don't pop up on the radar, and you can progress from country to country. Don't you get it? How did he get back to Europe unnoticed?
YOU BLEND IN WITH THE TIDE OF SYRIAN REFUGEES. ..... You seem to be ignoring that bit ..... probably because your left wing instincts are placing priorities on Syrian refugees and your desire to have them spread throughout Europe rather than living in tent cities inside the Turkey or Jordanian border.
Nov 19th 2015 | 11:31 am
#107
snÉןɔ ʎʇıuÉs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
The point you are missing is he was already supposed to have been 'on the radar' - but the radar, and their systems, were faulty. No point in more walls if that key "tracking and dealing with the bad guys you know about" element isn't working.
Nov 19th 2015 | 11:39 am
#108
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,735
From: Chippendale, Sydney
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Vladimir Putin seems to have reached this conclusion. Looks like he's now deploying Bears, Backfires and Blackjacks into the Syrian theatre. This is a lot more firepower than the original SU-34s were able to deliver.
S
Nov 19th 2015 | 12:00 pm
#109
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,230
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
A brother had taken video footage of some of us before a battle, but his camera got lost and was later sold by a murtadd [apostate] to a Western journalist. I suddenly saw my picture all over the media, but alhamdulillÄh, the kuffÄr [infidels] were blinded by Allah. I was even stopped by an officer who contemplated me so as to compare me to the picture, but he let me go, as he did not see the resemblance! This was nothing but a gift from Allah.
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
Nov 19th 2015 | 12:04 pm
#110
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,735
From: Chippendale, Sydney
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Exactly.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
Yeah. He'll be doing traffic duty for the rest of his career...
S
Nov 19th 2015 | 1:00 pm
#111
snÉןɔ ʎʇıuÉs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Exactly.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
Think about it, a minimum wage border guard. Say he sees 1 person every 30 seconds. That would be ~1000 people per day. 200,000 people per year. Suppose he stops only 1 in 100 of those people. That's still 2000 per year. And actually finding a terrorist in that lot is going to be less than 1 per year - so, say 1 in 10,000 chance on a 1 in 100 selection.
Is it any wonder they don't catch people? Hell the reviews of the TSA find they fail 95% of the time on tests (and those are going to be more obvious than someone actually trying to hide weapons, let alone someone on a fake passport).
From the point of view of the security theatre at borders, it by design fails most of the time. From the point of view of the terrorist, they have a pretty good chance (better than 1 in 30 probably) of not getting hassled getting weapons through the check, and probably a higher probability of getting themselves through.
As I've said, borders and lines really aren't that useful in this context.
Nov 19th 2015 | 2:17 pm
#112
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,307
From: @ the beach.
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Exactly. Under a Tory government junior doctors would double as border guards in lieu of sleeping and would be put on a performance related pay system which would instantly turn passports from any middle eastern countries into a voucher for a free NHS rectal exam. [/Lefty socialist view]
Nov 19th 2015 | 4:28 pm
#113
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 24,249
From: Alloha snack bar
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
"Quantity has a quality all of its own" - J Stalin
Nov 19th 2015 | 4:34 pm
#114
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,735
From: Chippendale, Sydney
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Nov 19th 2015 | 8:05 pm
#115
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
It's one of the counterintuitive things about going overboard on the security theatre - there are so many false positives that people stop thinking they will ever find a real bad guy - so they don't. The effectiveness actually goes down, as the intrusiveness goes up.
Think about it, a minimum wage border guard. Say he sees 1 person every 30 seconds. That would be ~1000 people per day. 200,000 people per year. Suppose he stops only 1 in 100 of those people. That's still 2000 per year. And actually finding a terrorist in that lot is going to be less than 1 per year - so, say 1 in 10,000 chance on a 1 in 100 selection.
Is it any wonder they don't catch people? Hell the reviews of the TSA find they fail 95% of the time on tests (and those are going to be more obvious than someone actually trying to hide weapons, let alone someone on a fake passport).
From the point of view of the security theatre at borders, it by design fails most of the time. From the point of view of the terrorist, they have a pretty good chance (better than 1 in 30 probably) of not getting hassled getting weapons through the check, and probably a higher probability of getting themselves through.
As I've said, borders and lines really aren't that useful in this context.
Think about it, a minimum wage border guard. Say he sees 1 person every 30 seconds. That would be ~1000 people per day. 200,000 people per year. Suppose he stops only 1 in 100 of those people. That's still 2000 per year. And actually finding a terrorist in that lot is going to be less than 1 per year - so, say 1 in 10,000 chance on a 1 in 100 selection.
Is it any wonder they don't catch people? Hell the reviews of the TSA find they fail 95% of the time on tests (and those are going to be more obvious than someone actually trying to hide weapons, let alone someone on a fake passport).
From the point of view of the security theatre at borders, it by design fails most of the time. From the point of view of the terrorist, they have a pretty good chance (better than 1 in 30 probably) of not getting hassled getting weapons through the check, and probably a higher probability of getting themselves through.
As I've said, borders and lines really aren't that useful in this context.
You are talking rubbish now. Words of the inexperienced.
Nov 19th 2015 | 8:27 pm
#116
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Exactly.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
He was even stopped at one point but the guy let him through
The Mysterious Life and Death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the Suspected Planner of the Paris Attacks - The Atlantic
That guy must feel pretty stupid.
Border control are and the only border control in Belgium is by air or sea.
Nov 19th 2015 | 11:09 pm
#117
snÉןɔ ʎʇıuÉs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Right .... of course ....
Nov 20th 2015 | 12:02 am
#118
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 24,249
From: Alloha snack bar
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Nov 20th 2015 | 1:47 pm
#119
Daffyd Duck
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,636
From: Paradise
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
I'm still in tears, one week after the events.
Nov 20th 2015 | 2:33 pm
#120
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Paris attacks/explosions
Here come the walls.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12008561/Schengen-at-risk-as-France-imposes-indefinite-border-controls.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12008561/Schengen-at-risk-as-France-imposes-indefinite-border-controls.html
