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Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
A serial paedophile who was deported from an Australian prison back to Britain yesterday will have to sign the sex offenders register and tell the authorities where he is living, the Home Office has said. Raymond Horne, 61, was detained by police on arrival at Heathrow amid claims - stirred up by tabloid headlines - that he posed a severe danger to the community. The state minister for police and corrective services in Queensland, Judy Spence, told a radio station on his departure that the state was "well rid" of him. "He is a paedophile," she said. "He was convicted of indecent dealing against a boy under 14 years of age. If he had stayed in Queensland, we would have regarded him as someone we would have wanted to watch for the next 15 years under very close supervision." Having emigrated from the UK at the age of five, Horne has been sent back because he never applied for Australian citizenship. But he has no immediate social or family support network in the UK. According to campaign groups working with victims of abuse, that will increase the likelihood of his reoffending. A British child protection expert agreed that Horne's isolation in the UK might make him more likely to offend. Paul Roffey, a director of RWA Child Protection Service, an independent agency, said: "He has already been identified as somebody who is high-risk. This is a situation that could only exacerbate that risk." But the Home Office insisted Horne would be put on the sex offenders register and could be the subject of a sexual offences prevention order (Sopo), which can impose restrictions on, for example, how closely he can approach a school. Australia dumping criminals in the UK? Poetic justice, surely. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092472)
Australia dumping criminals in the UK? Poetic justice, surely.
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092472)
A serial paedophile who was deported from an Australian prison back to Britain yesterday will have to sign the sex offenders register and tell the authorities where he is living, the Home Office has said. Raymond Horne, 61, was detained by police on arrival at Heathrow amid claims - stirred up by tabloid headlines - that he posed a severe danger to the community. The state minister for police and corrective services in Queensland, Judy Spence, told a radio station on his departure that the state was "well rid" of him. "He is a paedophile," she said. "He was convicted of indecent dealing against a boy under 14 years of age. If he had stayed in Queensland, we would have regarded him as someone we would have wanted to watch for the next 15 years under very close supervision." Having emigrated from the UK at the age of five, Horne has been sent back because he never applied for Australian citizenship. But he has no immediate social or family support network in the UK. According to campaign groups working with victims of abuse, that will increase the likelihood of his reoffending. A British child protection expert agreed that Horne's isolation in the UK might make him more likely to offend. Paul Roffey, a director of RWA Child Protection Service, an independent agency, said: "He has already been identified as somebody who is high-risk. This is a situation that could only exacerbate that risk." But the Home Office insisted Horne would be put on the sex offenders register and could be the subject of a sexual offences prevention order (Sopo), which can impose restrictions on, for example, how closely he can approach a school. Australia dumping criminals in the UK? Poetic justice, surely.
Originally Posted by Hutch
(Post 6092510)
That it is.
Only my opinion, but, at least the population of the UK is aware that he's there. It was on the news in Australia and the UK that he had been escorted to Brisbane airport for a flight to the UK, and on the BBC news site that he had arrived at Heathrow. The "rumour" that the two boys who killed Jamie Bulger have been given new identities and lives here in Australia is more of a worry to me. Surely, given media photographs, the majority of people in the UK are aware of what Raymond Horne looks like, while we in Australia, unfortunately, are completely unaware of what Jamie's murderers look like, do for a living, or where they live in the world let alone that they may be our neighbours, or in a position where they may come into contact with our children. It is indeed poetic justice that Australia is "repatriating" UK born criminals to the UK. Have to add here that I don't believe that many of the original "criminals" who were sent here had been guilty of heinous crime. Apologies if I've caused offence to anyone, just my take on things. M |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Machiavelli
(Post 6092554)
The "rumour" that the two boys who killed Jamie Bulger have been given new identities and lives here in Australia is more of a worry to me.
M If they chose to emigrate they would need to qualify for it like everyone else. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092472)
A serial paedophile who was deported from an Australian prison back to Britain yesterday will have to sign the sex offenders register and tell the authorities where he is living, the Home Office has said. Raymond Horne, 61, was detained by police on arrival at Heathrow amid claims - stirred up by tabloid headlines - that he posed a severe danger to the community. The state minister for police and corrective services in Queensland, Judy Spence, told a radio station on his departure that the state was "well rid" of him. "He is a paedophile," she said. "He was convicted of indecent dealing against a boy under 14 years of age. If he had stayed in Queensland, we would have regarded him as someone we would have wanted to watch for the next 15 years under very close supervision." Having emigrated from the UK at the age of five, Horne has been sent back because he never applied for Australian citizenship. But he has no immediate social or family support network in the UK. According to campaign groups working with victims of abuse, that will increase the likelihood of his reoffending. A British child protection expert agreed that Horne's isolation in the UK might make him more likely to offend. Paul Roffey, a director of RWA Child Protection Service, an independent agency, said: "He has already been identified as somebody who is high-risk. This is a situation that could only exacerbate that risk." But the Home Office insisted Horne would be put on the sex offenders register and could be the subject of a sexual offences prevention order (Sopo), which can impose restrictions on, for example, how closely he can approach a school. Australia dumping criminals in the UK? Poetic justice, surely. And your last remark gets my thumbs down. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Pollyana
(Post 6092573)
The two boys from the Bulger case are NOT in Australia. The rumour is an email scam with a false petition which does the rounds every so often and has been deleted from here more times than I care to remember.
If they chose to emigrate they would need to qualify for it like everyone else. Sorry if I've offended you. I've never seen an email re the two boys from the Bulger case, only heard rumours. I did not say that they ARE HERE. I said that the rumour that they were here was more of a worry to me than the public "repatriating" of Raymond Horne. Again, sincere apologies if I've offended you. M |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Pollyana
(Post 6092573)
The two boys from the Bulger case are NOT in Australia. The rumour is an email scam with a false petition which does the rounds every so often and has been deleted from here more times than I care to remember.
If they chose to emigrate they would need to qualify for it like everyone else. Its plausible Polly and with new ID's they could well be here. As for the Paedophile going back to his birth country and the high risk I hope his days are numbered, I make no apology, thats how I feel.:curse: |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by The OH
(Post 6092647)
How do you know they are NOT? Do you have proof?
Its plausible Polly and with new ID's they could well be here. As for the Paedophile going back to his birth country and the high risk I hope his days are numbered, I make no apology, thats how I feel.:curse: No democratic government would risk letting two child murderers live in their country with the risk of it ever being discovered. There is just way to many ways for that information to leak out. The media for one, know where they live, but are gagged by a UK gagging order. That doesn't apply for Australia. If either of them were here, we'd know. JTL |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by The OH
(Post 6092647)
How do you know they are NOT? Do you have proof?
Its plausible Polly and with new ID's they could well be here. As for the Paedophile going back to his birth country and the high risk I hope his days are numbered, I make no apology, thats how I feel.:curse: The email Machiavelli refers to is a well-known scam and has no basis in fact. When it was originally issued the British and Australian Govts refuted its claims as a scam. By all means continue discussing this recent case but leave the rumours and inniuendo out of it. ------------------------- Machiavelli, don't worry, I just don't want to spend the evening deleting it again - especially as it's arrived in my own inbox three times this week. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
[QUOTE=Machiavelli;6092554]Only my opinion, but,
Surely, given media photographs, the majority of people in the UK are aware of what Raymond Horne looks like, Great pic of him on the front of todays Daily Mail - head covered with a jacket, so I for one have no idea what he looks like. Lynn xx |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by gjs
(Post 6092602)
Why the thumbs up at the sart of your thread?
I can't see one positive thing in this situation. And your last remark gets my thumbs down. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
[QUOTE=the4ofus;6092713]
Originally Posted by Machiavelli
(Post 6092554)
Only my opinion, but,
Surely, given media photographs, the majority of people in the UK are aware of what Raymond Horne looks like, Great pic of him on the front of todays Daily Mail - head covered with a jacket, so I for one have no idea what he looks like. Lynn xx Google "Raymond Horne" M |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092472)
A serial paedophile who was deported from an Australian prison back to Britain yesterday will have to sign the sex offenders register and tell the authorities where he is living, the Home Office has said. Raymond Horne, 61, was detained by police on arrival at Heathrow amid claims - stirred up by tabloid headlines - that he posed a severe danger to the community. The state minister for police and corrective services in Queensland, Judy Spence, told a radio station on his departure that the state was "well rid" of him. "He is a paedophile," she said. "He was convicted of indecent dealing against a boy under 14 years of age. If he had stayed in Queensland, we would have regarded him as someone we would have wanted to watch for the next 15 years under very close supervision." Having emigrated from the UK at the age of five, Horne has been sent back because he never applied for Australian citizenship. But he has no immediate social or family support network in the UK. According to campaign groups working with victims of abuse, that will increase the likelihood of his reoffending. A British child protection expert agreed that Horne's isolation in the UK might make him more likely to offend. Paul Roffey, a director of RWA Child Protection Service, an independent agency, said: "He has already been identified as somebody who is high-risk. This is a situation that could only exacerbate that risk." But the Home Office insisted Horne would be put on the sex offenders register and could be the subject of a sexual offences prevention order (Sopo), which can impose restrictions on, for example, how closely he can approach a school. Australia dumping criminals in the UK? Poetic justice, surely. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Another forum memer has just reminded me that this guy isn't the only Pommy paedophile Australia has returned to the arms of his mother country.
Robert Excell was deported in 2005. He had been in and out of prison repeatedly, adding up to a total of 37 years behind bars. In 2006, the British government decided it was time to let him live within the community, albeit under strict supervision. To my mind, this is a travesty of justice. I feel particularly strongly about this case, because one of his victims was a personal friend of mine. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Machiavelli
(Post 6092616)
Sorry if I've offended you.
I've never seen an email re the two boys from the Bulger case, only heard rumours. I did not say that they ARE HERE. I said that the rumour that they were here was more of a worry to me than the public "repatriating" of Raymond Horne. Again, sincere apologies if I've offended you. M
Originally Posted by Pollyana
(Post 6092694)
I worked for the police at the time. I don't intend to say more than that.
The email Machiavelli refers to is a well-known scam and has no basis in fact. When it was originally issued the British and Australian Govts refuted its claims as a scam. By all means continue discussing this recent case but leave the rumours and inniuendo out of it. ------------------------- Machiavelli, don't worry, I just don't want to spend the evening deleting it again - especially as it's arrived in my own inbox three times this week. Hello Pollyanna, I am not referring to an email. I have never said that I was referring to an email. I am getting bored of repeating myself... I have heard a "rumour". With all due respect, when you said that you were working for the police at the time, were you in a position where you had to be "kept in the loop" as to what was happening with these two boys? Were you in a position where you had "input" as to what could/would be done with them after they admitted what they had done and during their incarceration and "rehabilitation"? During my career I have worked in many sensitive areas in various organisations, I was always aware that although I was in a "trusted" position that there were things going on that I had no knowledge or control of. It is my belief that if you, in fact, had any first hand knowledge of the Bulger case that you would have had to sign a declaration that you would not discuss the case in any way, ever. I have never said that those two boys are here. I have only said that it worried me that they may be here. I firmly believe that it is my given right to worry about things that may happen that may affect my children or any children. M |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Not to be boring, but...
This is not the only time that Australian authorities have "repatriated" sex offenders. Robert Excell was sent back to the UK on 29 July 2005. M |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Machiavelli
(Post 6092786)
Hello Pollyanna,
I am not referring to an email. I have never said that I was referring to an email. I am getting bored of repeating myself... I have heard a "rumour". With all due respect, when you said that you were working for the police at the time, were you in a position where you had to be "kept in the loop" as to what was happening with these two boys? Were you in a position where you had "input" as to what could/would be done with them after they admitted what they had done and during their incarceration and "rehabilitation"? During my career I have worked in many sensitive areas in various organisations, I was always aware that although I was in a "trusted" position that there were things going on that I had no knowledge or control of. It is my belief that if you, in fact, had any first hand knowledge of the Bulger case that you would have had to sign a declaration that you would not discuss the case in any way, ever. I have never said that those two boys are here. I have only said that it worried me that they may be here. I firmly believe that it is my given right to worry about things that may happen that may affect my children or any children. M "Ah, hello, is that Australian immigration? Yes, this is HM Rehabilitation department. We have two lads, child killers, notorious in this country and we wondered whether you'd grant them visas, new identities and government assistance in setting up new lives for themselves in your country? ...... bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .............. hello?" |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by JackTheLad
(Post 6092693)
I think as Pollyanna pointed out, they'd have to pass the immigration test like everyone else. A past criminal record for murder would exclude them.
No democratic government would risk letting two child murderers live in their country with the risk of it ever being discovered. There is just way to many ways for that information to leak out. The media for one, know where they live, but are gagged by a UK gagging order. That doesn't apply for Australia. If either of them were here, we'd know. JTL We'd know? Wouldn't we? |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Hutch
(Post 6092822)
Ignoring for a second the spam email on the subject or the 'rumour' you heard (which probably originated with the spam email even though you heard it via word of mouth) ... what would give the Australian government grounds to allow them to live here?
"Ah, hello, is that Australian immigration? Yes, this is HM Rehabilitation department. We have two lads, child killers, notorious in this country and we wondered whether you'd grant them visas, new identities and government assistance in setting up new lives for themselves in your country? ...... bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .............. hello?" |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
[QUOTE=Vash the Stampede;6092728]A paedophile has been booted out of my country and sent back to where he belongs.
[QUOTE] I think there's a moral question as to whether an adult who was forcibly taken to another country at the age of 5 can be said to belong to the country with which he has no ties and did not voluntarily choose to leave. It would be a different issue if he'd moved at the age of 25 and committed the crimes. I can see clearly why in the latter example Australia could well say "Why should we have him?". I can't quite see that in the former. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
(Post 6092897)
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092728)
A paedophile has been booted out of my country and sent back to where he belongs.
It would be a different issue if he'd moved at the age of 25 and committed the crimes. I can see clearly why in the latter example Australia could well say "Why should we have him?". I can't quite see that in the former. The key point here is that he never applied for Australian citizenship. He is not an Australian citizen. He is a British citizen. Ergo, he is legally tied to Britain whether he likes it or not. And this overrides any roots he might have put down during his time in Australia. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092932)
He was "forcibly taken"? You mean taken to Australia by force? Wow, that's news to me. Was he abducted, or something? :confused:
The key point here is that he never applied for Australian citizenship. He is not an Australian citizen. He is a British citizen. Ergo, he is legally tied to Britain whether he likes it or not. And this overrides any roots he might have put down during his time in Australia. He was brought here at 5 years old, how could he possibly have said " I want to go to live in Australia", so therefore was brought here under someone elses persuasion, which in this day and age is considered "Force". He was brought here by, assumably, his parents. The fact he didn't apply for citizenship is neither here nor there, lots of immigrants do the same, however they consider themselves to be Australian. He may technically be a British Citizen, but reality tells you that he was brought up in Australia for ALL of his life and carried out the crimes here, and so he should stay here and monitored. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092782)
Another forum memer has just reminded me that this guy isn't the only Pommy paedophile Australia has returned to the arms of his mother country.
Robert Excell was deported in 2005. He had been in and out of prison repeatedly, adding up to a total of 37 years behind bars. In 2006, the British government decided it was time to let him live within the community, albeit under strict supervision. To my mind, this is a travesty of justice. I feel particularly strongly about this case, because one of his victims was a personal friend of mine. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 6093239)
No the key point isn't that he did not apply to be a citizen of Australia.
He was brought here at 5 years old, how could he possibly have said " I want to go to live in Australia", so therefore was brought here under someone elses persuasion, which in this day and age is considered "Force". He was brought here by, assumably, his parents. The fact he didn't apply for citizenship is neither here nor there, lots of immigrants do the same, however they consider themselves to be Australian. He may technically be a British Citizen, but reality tells you that he was brought up in Australia for ALL of his life and carried out the crimes here, and so he should stay here and monitored. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Popcorn is on the go, this could be a belter :D
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by russmcp
(Post 6093273)
Popcorn is on the go, this could be a belter :D
Hehe, not tonight Josephine, I'm orf to bed... 1.41 am. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by EvannTel
(Post 6093247)
Gosh yes, you felt so strongly another member had to remind you????
And while we're here, are there any other crass comments you'd like to make on the subject? Perhaps you should meet my sexually abused friend. That should be good for a laugh, eh? |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 6093239)
No the key point isn't that he did not apply to be a citizen of Australia.
He was brought here at 5 years old, how could he possibly have said " I want to go to live in Australia", so therefore was brought here under someone elses persuasion, which in this day and age is considered "Force". He was brought here by, assumably, his parents. The fact he didn't apply for citizenship is neither here nor there, lots of immigrants do the same, however they consider themselves to be Australian. He may technically be a British Citizen, but reality tells you that he was brought up in Australia for ALL of his life and carried out the crimes here, and so he should stay here and monitored. If he was stupid enough not to apply for citizenship, he should be sent back to the place where he belongs. There's no justification (whether legal or moral) for keeping him here. I certainly don't see why we should bend the rules for the benefit of paedophiles. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
I have no answer. You obviously feel very strongly about a child who was taken to Australia, and when an adult, committed crimes that meant he should be returned to his country of birth, whether that country was recognisable to him or not.
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Well seems like the easy option out for Australia, kick him out we don't have to pay for him. Lets send him to the UK where nobody knows him!. Lets hope that someone with a Australian accent who has even a slight resemblance to him doesn't end up getting the sh*t kicked out of them.
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6093366)
He reminded me that Excell was deported. Got a problem with that?
And while we're here, are there any other crass comments you'd like to make on the subject? Perhaps you should meet my sexually abused friend. That should be good for a laugh, eh? There are more sexually abused adults around then you care to imagine. I would hazard a guess that most of us on here who are over the age of 30 have several in their group of friends. It was more prevalent years ago than anyone could imagine. Children were not believed, it was brushed under the carpet etc etc. IMO children are a lot safer now than they have ever been - they are told about child molesters, they are not allowed out on their own as much, they are believed and something is done about it. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
I realise this is a paedophile thats been deported. However Australian law is that any person that is not a Australian passport holder and commits a crime that results in more than 5 years in jail is supposed to be deported to their country of origin.
I can understand this law from the point of view of someone coming here, and within a few months or even 4 or 5 years and holding up a bank, or dealing in drugs, or even a paedophile and copping their just deserts. They were probably predisposed to that behaviour before they came here. I dont have a problem with relatively new arrivals getting deported. However after a certain amount of time, say 15 - 20 years most people take on Australian traits. In those cases if one commits a serious crime, they are getting a double dose of punishment compared to Australian citizens that commit the same crime. Most people would say good, However bear in mind, if someone is a real hardnosed proffessional armed robber, they may well take out Aussie citizenship so as to avoid the double punishment. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6093380)
"Technically" a British citizen? He's absolutely a British citizen. There's no "technically" about it.
If he was stupid enough not to apply for citizenship, he should be sent back to the place where he belongs. There's no justification (whether legal or moral) for keeping him here. I certainly don't see why we should bend the rules for the benefit of paedophiles. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6092932)
He was "forcibly taken"? You mean taken to Australia by force? Wow, that's news to me. Was he abducted, or something? :confused:
The key point here is that he never applied for Australian citizenship. He is not an Australian citizen. He is a British citizen. Ergo, he is legally tied to Britain whether he likes it or not. And this overrides any roots he might have put down during his time in Australia. (Unless of course you believe that at the age of 5 you can apply for a passport, a visa and make a conscious decision to move to Australia) |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
(Post 6093266)
I totally agree with you on this. Basically despite his crimes, he is getting kicked out because he doesn't have the correct paperwork. He was schooled here, worked here, developed an Aussie accent here, even paid taxes here. Personally I think they should have a 25 year residential limit on these deportation for crimes that carry more than a 3 year sentance. Sure these people are highly undesirable, but why after 25 years does the country of birth carry the responsibility.
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6093380)
So all the Poms taking their kids down under, are doing so by force? :confused:
. I never said that the parents were forced to move. I said that he was forced to move. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
(Post 6093366)
He reminded me that Excell was deported. Got a problem with that?
And while we're here, are there any other crass comments you'd like to make on the subject? Perhaps you should meet my sexually abused friend. That should be good for a laugh, eh? I just really annoyed with some views expressed in this thread and rather than saying nothing (which is what I should have done) I made a cheap shot. Personally I think these individuals are Australia's problem due to the situations and upbringing they have had - they have been "Australians" in all but citizenship. Had they arrived 2 years ago then deport. As for the Bulger killers, atrocious as the case was, they were children themselves, do they do not deserve another chance? Wherever that is or under what identites? (Of course only if safe to do so) I know many think not, but I do. Anyway apologies for my comment. |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Centurion
(Post 6094819)
why in hell should Australia assist you.
(The guy has broken the law, he's served his time and has been released. The punishment - I think according to the justice system - is over.) |
Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by Centurion
(Post 6094819)
Well said. If you can't be arsed or won't make the pledge to Australia as a country and become a citizen with civic responsibilities and rights, why in hell should Australia assist you.
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Re: Paedophile who lived in Australia for 56 years sent to UK
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
(Post 6095784)
I think others have said enough in response to this post. Suffice to say that my point was that at 5, yes he was forcibly taken.
(Unless of course you believe that at the age of 5 you can apply for a passport, a visa and make a conscious decision to move to Australia)
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
(Post 6095788)
And no doubt somebody could argue that Australian society influenced his desire to commit crimes against children. He certainly wasn't doing it when he lived in the UK.
My point is that 5 year olds weren't forcibly taken. Are they seeking recompense from the British Government? You expect someone to argue that Australia society influenced him? - this isn't about nature / nurture - its about a pervert who forcibly takes children and then sexually molests them and prefers to do this evil without being forcibly told to become an Australian citizen. I just think this issue of you using the word force/forcibly has been taken way out of context. Hope that makes sense. |
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