Timber Floor Au

But they have emailed their employer saying, dont send my mum threatening letters...

LOL kind of locking the gate after the horse has bolted.

I agree, pay it back ffs.. its money you werent entitled to, plus if roles reversed would you pursue them .. i would.. so agree to pay 10 quid a month over a set period as wendy said, but dont givvem your addy.

Ste

LittleHobo

My mum is opening all my post as my bank acc is still open in the uk, she returns things that i dont need etc. Also returned the letter as I dont live there and she doenst want to be receiving debt collectors letters if it goes that far.

As i said, i have responded to the letter anyway. They have not yet got back to me so as i have responded to them and the cut off was the 10th April I cant be accountable to their fines that they have imposed as they have not got back to me.

Does that make sense?

Timber Floor Au

No.

The fact that the messages take time to get to you isnt grounds for walking away from the issue, or allaying blame fault or duty.

Be careful, as this could be passed to an Australian Debt Collector, and they are like piranhas.

They can track you down in approx 2 hrs flat.

I would sit tight, as you have done everything it seems correctly. Then explain you cannot pay full amount, but are aware it needs to be paid, and a suitable payment plan , without fee be drawn up. At say 10 quid a month.

If they refuse then state, that chasing this small amount is fruitless.

As even credit card companies dont chase debts of less than 500 quid. So the fact you are offering to pay, can be seen as a positive outcome for all.

Potato_potato

An Australian debt collection agency would need to buy the debt. Fat chance, no one in their right mind is going to buy an unenforceable overseas debt. Especially when there is no contact info.

And even if they did buy it and did track you down somehow and called you - just deny it's you. Nothing they can do.

The letter has been sent to try and scare you in to payment. Companies use this tactic all the time. They have no intention of taking you to court for this amount.

Potato_potato

To add, I would just have your mother return the letter to your employer with "not at this address" on the envelope.

That will be the end of the matter.

The employer is at fault for the over payment. They need to cop it on the chin and learn from it.

LittleHobo

This is the first time on sunday i have heard of this situation with the money. My mum would have received the letter only in the past week. They have always had my forwarding email address for me.

I think people are getting confused with what i am asking. I am not asking should i pay it, i am asking where i stood from an overpayment point of view especially considering i am not even in the UK anymore.

Thanks for all your help.

Potato_potato

They can't touch you. Ignore any future correspondence.

Swerv-o

This is where the British legal system stands on this, as it is considered a 'wrongful credit'

__________________________________________________ _______________

Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;

(b) he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

(c) he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled.

(2) References to a credit are to a credit of an amount of money.

(3) A credit to an account is wrongful if it is the credit side of a money transfer obtained contrary to section 15A of this Act.

(4) A credit to an account is also wrongful to the extent that it derives from—

(a) theft;

(b) an offence under section 15A of this Act;

(c) blackmail; or

(d) stolen goods.

(5) In determining whether a credit to an account is wrongful, it is immaterial (in particular) whether the account is overdrawn before or after the credit is made.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

(7) Subsection (8) below applies for purposes of provisions of this Act relating to stolen goods (including subsection (4) above).

(8) References to stolen goods include money which is dishonestly withdrawn from an account to which a wrongful credit has been made, but only to the extent that the money derives from the credit.

(9) In this section “account” and “money” shall be construed in accordance with section 15B of this Act.”

(2) This section applies to wrongful credits made on or after the day on which this Act is passed.
__________________________________________________ _______________

So there is provision under the theft act that could make any wrongful credit a criminal matter. Now of course, to further proceed with this, then there would have to be a police investigation, which would involve you being questioned. That would be pretty difficult, as you aren't in the country, and I can't really see that they will attempt to extradite you for two hundred quid.

If they decided to try and pursue it through the courts as a civil matter, then they still need to serve you with the summons to court, which may also be difficult to do. But remember that these things can just get shelved for years, so there's no telling that it will be dropped, and may still be hanging around years from now.

I would write to them, asking them to outline the exact nature of the overpayment, and in doing that state that as far as you were concerned then there was no overpayment, and that everything was as it should be. If they don't provide you with any kind of documentary evidence, then they are effectively demanding money with menaces. In any correspondence, make sure you explain that as far as you were concerned it was all in order, then the points to prove in the offence outlined above fail at point (b), because they have to prove that you knew or believed the credit was wrongful, which you obviously don't.

Does that help any?


S

LittleHobo

It is useful information, thanks for taking time to write all that

Potato_potato

Nothing a simple google search wouldn't have provided you to begin with.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996..._19960062_en_1

Asking questions here will likely arouse discussion/debate. If you're looking for specific facts to questions like this, I would advise to do a Google search first. Not doing so just looks a tad lazy & expecting people to do it for you looks very lazy.

FluffyTheCampfireSlayer

Geeeeez!!!

It never ceases to amaze me how much the subject of debt, gets people's knickers in a twist on here!!!

I can see the moral do-gooders creeping in here already!!!! Oh, and I can also see you slimey Mo Fo's who would 'do one', creeping in as well!

At the end of the day, who cares wether other people pay their debts or not? Certainly not me!

renth

I'm certainly not one to advocate running away from debt but in this case, I'd tell them to **** off.

Flutterby

I don't think that the info above on credit is helpful in this case. We are talking payment of wages here, not fraudulently obtaining credit or a criminal act. I got this from the CAB which shows the technicalities and why I asked you if you knew you were overpaid or not.

Overpayment of wages

Overpayments tend to occur on basic rate pay or overtime pay or commission/ bonus. To show that an overpayment is not recoverable then you must show three things:

1.) That the overpayment was the fault of the company and not the employee.
2.) It must have been reasonable for the employee not to know they were being overpaid.
3.) The employee must have acted to their disadvantage or the belief that the payment of the salary was correct. E.g. by spending the money.

The most difficult of the three to prove tend to be the second one, as it is often obvious when an overpayment has occurred. Also it is not acceptable for an employee to assume they have been given a pay rise unless there is reason to believe this.

If you have noticed an overpayment and it is not an expected pay rise, the best option would be to tell your employer as it is likely they will discover it and are entitled to ask for it back under The Employment Rights Act 1996. If you are still working at the company it is likely that this deduction will be from future pay; but if not you, will be required to pay it back yourself. If they choose to take back this money from your pay they must do it over a reasonable period of time and it cannot be too much at once.

It is important to know that you employer is allowed to claim this money back even if you can show all three criteria above. It is you that must make a legal claim to get back the money that has been wrongly deducted.

When the court is deciding a claim they consider whether the overpayment is due to a mistake of law or a mistake of fact.

A 'mistake of law’ -Is classed as a misunderstanding /misinterpretation of a rule and this means that wages cannot be recovered.
A 'mistake of fact' - Is seen for example as a clerical error, an accounting error, or a computer error. The employer is prevented from recovering the overpayment if the conditions mentioned earlier apply

As I said, I think my first response would be to write back and advise them that you did not realise you had been overpaid until the receipt of this letter and that as this was not your mistake that you feel it is unnecessary to pay it back. You can always offer later to pay back a small amount each month. I would also bear in mind that as you have left the country now there will be a cost to transfer the money each month from dollars to pounds which you should not have to bear.

I agree with Potato above that they are just trying it on, they need to show that they have at least tried and will probably write it off if you respond in the way I suggest.

HJAMES

When I used to work in accounts it was never worth us taking any one to court for a debt of that amount. Loads of companies got away with not paying!!!!!! Do what you feel right

Kooky.

Not going to pretend to understand all the legalese above but I believe that not disclosing to the company that they have overpaid you amounts to fraud. I say this because it once happened to my ex-husband. He didn't spend it, he totally planned to pay it back, but he thought he'd let them come to him about it. As a result he was threatened with being charged with fraud, suspended, and it more or less ended his career path with that company.

(Not that you're asking but I'm one of those moral do-gooders, mofos or whatever you want to call me. It's not my money, why would I spend it?)