Cheetah7

Im sorry but why does he feel this need to maintain such contact? I would teach your daughter to say 'Please do not touch me, I do not like it' whenever this guy tries to touch her nose.

Jesus christ, does this guy have a blurred line for his standards or what?

TiddlyPom

Geez, this is so weird. I think maybe I'd be going to have a talk to 'Dave' and ask him for an explanation.

Dorothy

Yeah, me too. And I would be sure to take a third party witness along with me - someone other than my partner.

odyssey

Hi

It is really strange this topic has come up when I was in a similar dilemma last week.

i dont think nose tweaking etc is a problem nor would i have thought of anything about someone who was teasing the kids and from a reasonable distance away did so by saying "open your mouth" and just sort of blew at them like blowing candles away distance. I mean I would hate anyone to do that to me, its not hygenic but in the right context it wouldnt make me suspect the person was a paedophile.

My little girl is 5, I absolutely love the after school care and the staff there. Its got fantastic ratios, the kids are really loved and cared for, they are fed, they go on numerous trips and all the staff are great. One guy, in his 40s seems really nice and makes a fuss of my little girl and everyone. for another reason he once came to my house (not his fault, coincidence). Anyway I was in bed with her the other night putting her to bed and reading a story. We were chatting in general and then she suddenly said something like XXX shows me his bum and his willy. I nearly passed out there and then but kept really calm and didnt flinch.

I said "oh, thats not very nice, what do you mean?" She repeated it and I said "oh where was that then?" she said in after school care. I said "oh where exactly in after school care were you, who was there" - she started to falter a bit so I decided to change the subject. So we talked about something else then I said "hey, you know if any adult does show you their bottom or anything else, even if its a game, its not a good thing dont you. In fact its really really important that even if it was just a one off that you tell an adult straight away. Even if they say not to because mum needs to know incase later maybe they hurt you"

Now I know my little girl I hope, she wasnt scared or anything at this point, we were just talking. So I said "when exactly did *** show something to you and she was looking like she wasnt telling the truth. So I said to her - look its really important that you tell me the truth now, because nothing will happen to you and you wont get in trouble, its just mum needs to know so I Can look after you and know all the games that you play. Are you telling the truth, did *** show you his bottom or willy? She said no, she was making it up. So I said, what made you make that up, that seems a funny thing to make up - did anyone talk to you about showing their bottom or something? She said no, she just thought it was a funny thing like a trick to play

wtf! I still dont feel that comfortable although I am sure she was actually making it up, the 3 kids are constantly playing "toilet talk" and I know that that is age appropriate but it was just so weird. I spoke to another mum about it in confidence and am not going to do anything else.

The guy seems very nice, I have spoken with my little girl and will continue to do so about acceptable and non acceptable behaviour and we play some Q&A games on it and I dont know what else I can do really.

I know one thing though, if I were a man there is not any chance at all I would ever become a carer, in this climate its just a minefield and that is a real pity as a lot of really strong, positive influences in my childhood were male and its a really sad place we live in that you cannot feel comfortable leaving your child with a male clergy member or carer not because of risk but even because of just due diligence.

I definately wouldnt be ruining this guys life over what I am pretty certain was not based on fact. You know your daughter though and so that is what you have to go with - you know how likely she is to be accurate or not. The worst thing is this guy sort of made my instincts wary even though hes nice way before she said anything.

TiddlyPom

If my child had told me that, I'd have believed my child. Every time.

odyssey

maybe, but you know your own child. Mine is saying she was just tricking and is a very open child - I am asking her heaps of non related questions though and it seems above board.

Its a very strange thing to say though. And I am aware of that.

I did think of perhaps talking off the record to one of the staff there, but its so horrendous for the person if it really is just a child being silly especially since she is really clear that it was made up. I spoke to another mother about it whose child also goes and then she spoke with my daughter too when she stayed there this week and she thinks the same

TiddlyPom

But the way you describe it is that your child clammed up after you asked all these questions. Any bright child would do that too. All of a sudden, life's normal until she tells you about this thing, and then you start playing 20 questions. She's saying she's just tricking because it'll take the pressure off her. If she's that open, and she told you something which is bothering her, then what's not to believe?
Of course she's clear it was made up....she's embarrassed probably and she wants you off her back.

The warning sign to me is that 'she started to falter' when you questioned her and you're telling it's her it's a bad thing and it's wrong and she could be hurt... and then you hammer it to her about telling the truth... ie she is now being disbelieved.
She sounds like a smart kid...

I really don't pay any attention to what other people think, I go with my gut. If any kid said that to me, I'd still go with my gut. It sounds totally genuine and I would be down there speaking to staff straight away, not another mother who will then go and question again....

People who question children in child abuse cases spend years in training so they can do it right. It sounds like it happened and your daughter has totally clammed up because she realises she's not being believed.
I'm sure you're a great mum, you're obviously open with your daughter and you think you did the right thing, but little kids don't just come out with something like that on the spur of the moment.

Sorry if you don't agree, but I'm going to say it. No-one else wants to.

Listen to your child. You've never had a reason not to. And when it comes to listening to a child and a 40 yr old child carer male, I'd want to know.
Maybe she caught him going to the toilet, perhaps there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I'd want to hear what it is. And the guy seems 'very nice'? I'm sure he is. And I'm equally sure he won't mind answering a question or two about why your daughter said this thing. That is not 'ruining his life', but rather expecting some sort of adult response to a reasonable question!

carolinephillips

Going back to the earlier case- at the very least the centre is at fault over its staffing ratios. I work at a pre-school and we have to ensure that staff members are always in sight of another member, so that nothing untoward can happen without a witness. If we have to help with toileting, then we always tell someone and they discreetly watch.

The second case is tricky. Children of around 4 years are very interested in the differences in their bodies, and will often compare, point, laugh and show their genitals. If it was with another child, then this is perfectly normal behaviour.
In both cases, if a child tells an adult about inappropriate behaviour, we have strict guidelines to follow. What guidelines does the centre have? Ask to see their policies.

Finally, remember that children can often "misremember" or exaggerate what has happened through the day. I used to tell the parents, (when I taught 7 year olds,)that I would only believe half the stories that they told me about their home lives, if they would do the same about what the children said about the school.

However, any disclosure of inappropriate behaviour has to be taken seriously, without asking leading questions- a difficult thing to do if you are at all emotionally involved.

Burbage

The sad truth is that paedophiles actively put themselves into positions to get access to children. Therefore children are most likely to encounter them in child care or child club situations.