The mining tax
Jul 3rd 2010 | 11:37 pm
#46
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The mining tax
We share exactly the same issue. Unbelievably it is worse in the states other than NSW and Vic.
Jul 4th 2010 | 12:37 am
#47
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,183
From: Listening to Puffing Billy
Re: The mining tax
I am currently writing to the powers that be about this discusting lack of forsight and lack of understanding of the day to day struggles that my son faces. I doubt anyone will take any notice, but its all I can do.
Sorry to the OP for hi jacking
Aug 10th 2010 | 5:42 pm
#48
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Re: The mining tax
So Broad Shoulder, you work for a employer. Tell me, what would happen if your employer was told tomorrow that the tax bill was going to 78%. I am guessing they wouldnt be too happy? Maybe your job would no longer exist? And why shouldnt you pay at least that in tax. How much net does your industry pay to the goverment? Less than mining? Oh, so maybe you should actually pay a premium to bring it in line with actual figures? Not a pleasent thought is it.
As for exploration booming, you are having a laugh. I am a exploration geo. Responsible for some big $$$ spends. Most of my friends are exploration geos. Most are already seeing projects being scrubbed, spend reduced and the number of vacancies in the industry has fallen on its ass.
The effect this has had is simple. No mines will close. No mines would have closed even if it had come in as planned. What will happen is simply a withdraw of future investment in areas such as exploration and mine expansion in favour of projects in countries that are viewed more favourably. The hard reality is, is that mining in Australia is VERY expensive (In the future i may set up my own exploration company but would not even dream of exploring here) At the same time the size of deposits is now fairly small on the global scale and difficult. A lot of projects are fairly marginal. So when a company is looking at making half a billion dollar investment to build a mine, knowing that at best they would see profit as such until year 8 of a 10 year mine life, then believe me, tax regime is pretty important.
Ah but wait, i see, so we make huge profits. Wait a minute while the guys around me dry their eyes. Coal and iron ore do at PRESENT. I work at one of the largest gold mines in Australia and we barely cleared 7 figures last year. And that was a good year! Oh, by the way, the company invested nearly 100 times that in new projects. But even coal and iron ore have limits. Mongolia has massive coal and iron ore deposits and until recently they have lain pretty dormant due to soverign risk and the fact they would be expensive and difficult to mine, so we mine WA and QLD instead. But, things like this can tip a fine balance. In fact i know one Perth company that has recently agreed to explore these on behalf of the Chinese goverment.
Then there is the "we will invest it in rural communities" rubbish. They have never invested in rural communities. A lot of the small towns in WA have their medical services care of mining, a lot of the roads, heck my mine even picks up the bill for a museum. And we arent even in the town.
If you didnt realise that it was the mining sector that kept Oz out of recession then please tell the rest of us who it was? Oh, and how are thing looking from the planet you are on? Maybe it was super Dudd? Oh, maybe it was all them school halls and home insulations
As for exploration booming, you are having a laugh. I am a exploration geo. Responsible for some big $$$ spends. Most of my friends are exploration geos. Most are already seeing projects being scrubbed, spend reduced and the number of vacancies in the industry has fallen on its ass.
The effect this has had is simple. No mines will close. No mines would have closed even if it had come in as planned. What will happen is simply a withdraw of future investment in areas such as exploration and mine expansion in favour of projects in countries that are viewed more favourably. The hard reality is, is that mining in Australia is VERY expensive (In the future i may set up my own exploration company but would not even dream of exploring here) At the same time the size of deposits is now fairly small on the global scale and difficult. A lot of projects are fairly marginal. So when a company is looking at making half a billion dollar investment to build a mine, knowing that at best they would see profit as such until year 8 of a 10 year mine life, then believe me, tax regime is pretty important.
Ah but wait, i see, so we make huge profits. Wait a minute while the guys around me dry their eyes. Coal and iron ore do at PRESENT. I work at one of the largest gold mines in Australia and we barely cleared 7 figures last year. And that was a good year! Oh, by the way, the company invested nearly 100 times that in new projects. But even coal and iron ore have limits. Mongolia has massive coal and iron ore deposits and until recently they have lain pretty dormant due to soverign risk and the fact they would be expensive and difficult to mine, so we mine WA and QLD instead. But, things like this can tip a fine balance. In fact i know one Perth company that has recently agreed to explore these on behalf of the Chinese goverment.
Then there is the "we will invest it in rural communities" rubbish. They have never invested in rural communities. A lot of the small towns in WA have their medical services care of mining, a lot of the roads, heck my mine even picks up the bill for a museum. And we arent even in the town.
If you didnt realise that it was the mining sector that kept Oz out of recession then please tell the rest of us who it was? Oh, and how are thing looking from the planet you are on? Maybe it was super Dudd? Oh, maybe it was all them school halls and home insulations
Well we will soon see how badly those mining companies were doing it these last few months when they publish their quarterly reports. Better hope they show something other than bumper profits otherwise you Mine Criers will end up with egg on face.You may be a geologist in the field but that doesn't make you a business expert in your field, you are paid to be a scientist...very different and therefore I am suspecting that you will believe everything your fat-cat bosses will tell you when they say it would have ruined the industry.
PS. I sit next to and work on a daily basis with a Geo-Physicist and he is employed to give scientific advice, not business analysis. Those that provide the business analysis are often also those that can produce the positive or negative spin to get what they want (I should know as that is what I do for a living unfortunately)
PS. I sit next to and work on a daily basis with a Geo-Physicist and he is employed to give scientific advice, not business analysis. Those that provide the business analysis are often also those that can produce the positive or negative spin to get what they want (I should know as that is what I do for a living unfortunately)
http://www.news.com.au/business/brea...-1225903999853
How would you like your eggs?
In all seriousness, my reason for revisiting this is simply to try and help dispell the myth that has been plastered across our teles by the mining fat cats that our nation is at risk if Labor gets in and imposes this tax. It's scare tactics at its worst and quite disgraceful that these fat cats are painting themselves as "Aussie Battlers"
Last edited by Broad Shoulders; Aug 10th 2010 at 5:53 pm.
Aug 10th 2010 | 6:11 pm
#49
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 24,249
From: Alloha snack bar
Re: The mining tax
Hate to say I told you so, but I’d be lying.
http://www.news.com.au/business/brea...-1225903999853
How would you like your eggs?
In all seriousness, my reason for revisiting this is simply to try and help dispell the myth that has been plastered across our teles by the mining fat cats that our nation is at risk if Labor gets in and imposes this tax. It's scare tactics at its worst and quite disgraceful that these fat cats are painting themselves as "Aussie Battlers"
http://www.news.com.au/business/brea...-1225903999853
How would you like your eggs?
In all seriousness, my reason for revisiting this is simply to try and help dispell the myth that has been plastered across our teles by the mining fat cats that our nation is at risk if Labor gets in and imposes this tax. It's scare tactics at its worst and quite disgraceful that these fat cats are painting themselves as "Aussie Battlers"
If profits that normally go towards reinvestment are now going to the government then this will have an affect on future investment.
I see that this week that both Rio Tinto and CBA have both announced record, and similar, half yearly profits of about $6b each, yet there is no mention of a super profits tax on the banking industry. Extreme double standards IMO.
Aug 10th 2010 | 6:19 pm
#50
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Re: The mining tax
I'm against the tax as I disagree with socialism and excessive wealth redistribution - and this tax is extreme sociialism. I also have a vested interest in this as I'm directly employed in the mining industry. I do concede though that there is a lot of shite (read lies) being written about the subject - both by the miners and the government.
If profits that normally go towards reinvestment are now going to the government then this will have an affect on future investment.
I see that this week that both Rio Tinto and CBA have both announced record, and similar, half yearly profits of about $6b each, yet there is no mention of a super profits tax on the banking industry. Extreme double standards IMO.
If profits that normally go towards reinvestment are now going to the government then this will have an affect on future investment.
I see that this week that both Rio Tinto and CBA have both announced record, and similar, half yearly profits of about $6b each, yet there is no mention of a super profits tax on the banking industry. Extreme double standards IMO.
As I stated in an earlier post, Banking should definitely be the focus of the govt. If the banks are going to continue to rip us off then we can only hope that the govt get something out of them so they can give it back...at the very least
Aug 10th 2010 | 6:26 pm
#51
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The mining tax
The focus should be on "super profits" and encouragement of investment and exploration. Taxing of "super profits" for all industries should also be on the agenda as it is a sign of excess due to poor competition.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Aug 10th 2010 | 6:28 pm
#52
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Re: The mining tax
The focus should be on "super profits" and encouragement of investment and exploration. Taxing of "super profits" for all industries should also be on the agenda as it is a sign of excess due to poor competition.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
agree with your post though
Aug 10th 2010 | 6:46 pm
#53
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 24,249
From: Alloha snack bar
Re: The mining tax
The focus should be on "super profits" and encouragement of investment and exploration. Taxing of "super profits" for all industries should also be on the agenda as it is a sign of excess due to poor competition.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
'Super profit' taxes have been applied/mooted to oil companies, banks etc in the UK, USA and other countries, but these have been one-off payments, not ongoing taxes like the proposed mining tax. You have a point by mentioning 'poor competition' as Rio and BHPB had a virtually monopoly in the Pilbara and could almost do as they pleased - supported by compliant state and federal governments. It was only recently that guys like Andrew Forrest have managed to break their monopoly but even so, Rio and BHPB are very dominant up there. Ultimately though, record mining profits are dictated by the market for commodities and what customers are prepared/have to pay for them.
Aug 10th 2010 | 7:15 pm
#54
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,584
Re: The mining tax
The focus should be on "super profits" and encouragement of investment and exploration. Taxing of "super profits" for all industries should also be on the agenda as it is a sign of excess due to poor competition.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Socialism went with the eighties and mullets. Oops mullets are still around here.
Aug 10th 2010 | 7:25 pm
#55
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Re: The mining tax
Show me the proof. The only proof I am seeing to date is that the mining companies have been lying while getting fatter all the while
Aug 10th 2010 | 7:45 pm
#57
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Aug 10th 2010 | 8:08 pm
#59
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,460
From: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Re: The mining tax
Seems to me that the only arguments raised so far (mining profits going down meaning job cuts and projects being shelved as well as the effect it will have on super funds) have been completely shot to pieces by actual facts and figures.
So what argument are you now resorting to that would suggest that the mining tax is bad for this country?
I would trust the advice coming out of the Treasury a million times before I trust the bile that Clive Palmer and his tribe expell....you know the same Clive Palmer who admitted to lying about his claim that the mining industry will be shelving their projects if the tax went through.
BTW, I will not be voting Labor this election as they haven't deserved my vote. Just because I am pro this tax, does not make me a Labor supporter. Could it just be that it is actually a good idea and nothing to do with political affiliations?
Last edited by Broad Shoulders; Aug 10th 2010 at 8:16 pm.
Aug 10th 2010 | 8:36 pm
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,584
Re: The mining tax
so in that case, what was your point about Superannuation?
Seems to me that the only arguments raised so far (mining profits going down meaning job cuts and projects being shelved as well as the effect it will have on super funds) have been completely shot to pieces by actual facts and figures.
So what argument are you now resorting to that would suggest that the mining tax is bad for this country?
I would trust the advice coming out of the Treasury a million times before I trust the bile that Clive Palmer and his tribe expell....you know the same Clive Palmer who admitted to lying about his claim that the mining industry will be shelving their projects if the tax went through.
BTW, I will not be voting Labor this election as they haven't deserved my vote. Just because I am pro this tax, does not make me a Labor supporter. Could it just be that it is actually a good idea and nothing to do with political affiliations?
Seems to me that the only arguments raised so far (mining profits going down meaning job cuts and projects being shelved as well as the effect it will have on super funds) have been completely shot to pieces by actual facts and figures.
So what argument are you now resorting to that would suggest that the mining tax is bad for this country?
I would trust the advice coming out of the Treasury a million times before I trust the bile that Clive Palmer and his tribe expell....you know the same Clive Palmer who admitted to lying about his claim that the mining industry will be shelving their projects if the tax went through.
BTW, I will not be voting Labor this election as they haven't deserved my vote. Just because I am pro this tax, does not make me a Labor supporter. Could it just be that it is actually a good idea and nothing to do with political affiliations?
