Beoz

You are still assuming everyone is heading in the same direction towards a single CBD.

Fine for somewhere like Geelong.

Not fine for an 8 million Melbourne.

Sydney is already multiple directions. London has been like it for a long time and even more so since City Congestion charge came in and no one drives to the city.

the troubadour

I know Australia very well thank you. Happy to fill you in on the blanks in knowledge. Time permitting, of course. Not possessing a car in Sydney or Melbourne, is much about location lived and/or worked rather than a blanket declaration one way or the other. I know one person at present whom gets by perfectly well being auto free in Sydney. But all others have cars, I have discussed this subject, but with kids, work and shopping claim need cars for convenience if not absolutely essential. I suspect Melbourne is easier, I certainly got by well travelling by tram back to North Balwyn every day when there. In fact, went more than two years auto free in Perth. A prime auto reliant city, sad to say. But again that was due to location and hardly affordable in recent times, inner city locations, apart from flats. I suppose.
Still hardly comparable with the ease of European systems.

In the case of Melbourne, it will be many decades I suspect, with massive cost blow outs, and probably an unliveable city if anything like 8 million are packed in. Pure insanity.

Beoz

As I said, many parts of Sydney and Melbourne a car is not required. You repeated what I said.

Reason: Public transport. Which completely mutes your point about this project.

8 million or whatever live fine and dandy in London, New York and other places due to a public transport system.

Melbourne will need it. It's a no brainer. Onwards and upwards without the need to be stifled by left wingers.

ozzieeagle

Nope totally wrong, you don't understand the geographical example I gave. I mentioned East and West Roads as well..... Plenty of those from Mahoneys Rd, Somerton Rd, Mickleham Rd, All adjacent and they can be one way at certain times of the day. In my previous post, I only mentioned my local two main roads..... Bell St and Southern Rd etc, which run adjacent to one another.

Beoz

You don't understand the all directions issue. Travelling in a single direction, towards a single CBD is easy to solve and your example has merit for that with phased traffic lights and so forth. Sydney does that under the airport tunnel to service the port and the city from the south and south west. They increase and reduce the lane count at a time of day. They actually move north bound traffic into the south bound tunnel in the mornings. There is a bay on one side and an airport on the other. No crossover traffic. Not an issue. The problems exist with crossover traffic. Assuming your roads have crossover traffic?

ozzieeagle

I can easily envisage the solution and am surprised you cant.

Vauxhall...the Elephant and the A5 at Milton Keynes,.... They can be any shape and length you like as long as there is room to merge.. No crossovers just merging...

the troubadour

Actually it is usually the left of centre that push for public transport. The Right see public transport, as subsidised drain on the public purse and prefer roads. You should know at least the basics of right wing ideology if you wish to argue that point. Besides, surely you do not call the ALP left wing? They are all out advocates of over crowding Australian cities, it is the Right of the Coalition, that is for restraint.
Australian cities being the sprawling mass they are, are not particularly well serviced by public transport, especially in the more affordable (poorer) outer areas, where the need would be, but hardly due to spread and cost. There are still far too many people (majority) that would never dream of using public transport. (don't like being in close proximity with fellow citizens) The car is a very entrenched way of life in Australia and will prove hard to shift. It is not a question of need, that is clearly ascertained. But a question of shifting thinking and the convenience of a car.

The cost does not mute the point I'm making at all, but will prove an over riding feature, as costs blow out to more in the order of 100,Billion dollars.

Beoz

Perhaps you need to move to Sydney.

Here the Labor government neglected and refused to spend money on public transport.

The Liberal government not only have the biggest public transport drives in Australia's history but are doing it without going into debt.

You are out of touch again.

Beoz

Have you ever driven from Elephant to Vauxhall in recent times? In daylight hours, it's a crawl at best.

ozzieeagle

I'm talking about how to merge north south east west traffic all to run fluently and one way and back onwards in its own direction without the need for crossover ......merging in wide roads around blocks or large roundabouts. The biggest roundabout in Milton Keynes manages it at circa anywhere between 30 to 50 MPH.... although that is almost 800 meters in diameter and 4 lanes wide.

scrubbedexpat098

This would see me through to retirement, and being that there's a shortage of people who are competent , I could charge a fortune.. I've got my fingers crossed for this 😀

the troubadour

Little choice in the matter otherwise Sydney would become ever more akin to Bangkok in traffic flow. Rule being you don't over flow the city with additional population and have no public transport planning en train. Funny the howls of complaint and outrage, with regards to Sydney's declining living standards goes over your head with consistency.

Are you reading the cost blowouts? I think nobody yet knows the bill for the 'end game'. You are not suggesting a Liberal government is any better at economic management surely? We see the results of economic mismanagement here in WA after the' biggest boom' in modern Australian history and the state of the coffers to go with it.

Sad not confined to this state either. I doubt if you've ever caught sight of the ball.

Beoz

What you just wrote is exactly the reason why you keep left wing parties out of government at all cost.

Because you are so out of touch about Sydney and Melbourne for that matter let me bring you up to speed.

Both are currently adequately serviced by public transport. However, smart governments (just like smart businesses) realise the only way to prevent decline is to promote growth. So that's what we do ...... grow. Part of that is making new public transport.

So in the case of Sydney, Parramatta to Sydney currently has heavy rail and a bus service. We are adding a light rail and a metro line.

Of course those with hatred of success will say it's a waste of money, or it will have a budget blow out, or make up some other excuse because progress is a frightening prospect, however Parramatta is becoming a large city and transporting people between the current city and the new city quickly and effectively is important.

Check part of Parramatta out for yourself. Not only will it be a good place to work, and architecturally exciting (a rare thing for Australia) it will provide jobs for people in Sydney's west. https://www.parramattasquare.net.au

And those 2 transport projects are just 2 of many being built and 2 of many more on the drawing board.

Of course if you want to be like 2 of the failed greats, Bob Carr and Dick Smith, you can run around town telling everyone that Sydney "is full". No one ever buys that of course which is why both are "failed".

We are living in great times. You can either resent or jump on board. Choice is yours.

the troubadour

What are you talking about? The cost blow outs have been massive. Any movement on George Street yet? A slump in work last time I heard. But of course, what the tax payers will be forced to shell out, never concerns you.
Acciona ring any bells? Anyway claimed deceived by government when gave original quote. What about claims against government for an additional 1.2 billion$? Or the 200$ more over light rail in order to create dam near Centennial Park?
Or the 400 - 500$ cost for repairs in order for the North West Metro sky train project.

I'm afraid even falling house sales has not increased falling living standards. I can sense the frustration though. Wild flower season on over West. You could do worse, than give yourself a break from anxiety and come over and smell the blooms.

the troubadour

I don't mean to suggest of course, that Sydney will ever become like Bangkok in reality. Clogged roads not withstanding. Cheap dining options, alcohol, five star hotels, massages nor hookers to be part of the Sydney landscape anytime soon. Sorry for getting your hopes up Beoz, but it just isn't going to happen.