Mandela RIP
 

Probably the greatest man in my lifetime passed away today. Many superlatives are thrown easily at famous people these days but in Nelson case they generally stack up.
A truly humble and great man. RESPECT AND RIP Madeba

Nelson Mandela dies
 

on the news now

I know he's seen as a criminal to some, but in my opinion, a sad day :(

Re: Nelson Mandela dies
 

Shame, but his time is well and truly up!!

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Great is a word used far too often but Mandela was a truly great man and one of the greatest of the 20th century.

We can lean much from the way he preached forgiveness. How many here could forgive someone for locking them away for 27 years in a damp cell?

RIP Nelson, you will be greatly missed.

"We have triumphed in the effort to implant hope in the breasts of the millions of our people. We enter into a covenant that we shall build the society in which all South Africans, both black and white, will be able to walk tall, without any fear in their hearts, assured of their inalienable right to human dignity — a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world."

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I fully agree, one man who really did deserve the Nobel Peace prize he won, he was an inspiration and is one of the few politicians I would have loved to meet.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

RIP Madiba

Re: Mandela RIP
 

RIP Madiba. A true king of kings.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Many years ago I had the good fortune to be within a few metres of Nelson Mandela and I share the views of those who say he had an amazing presence.

His strength, courage and vision changed many lives for the better and he was a worthy recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize.

RIP Nelson Mandela.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I didn't do much of good use as a young man but I did attend several anti apartheid/ free Mandela rallies and concerts and was so happy many years later when he finally was released and the henious apartheid system was dismantled..

Re: Mandela RIP
 

RIP Madiba

Hamba Kahle, Tata

An incredible moment:

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Words like 'hero' and 'legend' are bandied around far too often these days but in case of Nelson Mandela they are genuinely appropriate. An inspiration.

A sad day indeed.

RIP

"I can rest only for a moment, for with freedom come responsibilities, and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not yet ended."

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I have mixed feelings about Madiba

He was a terrorist and deserved to go to prison - but not for 25 years, and his party, the ANC and its terrorist arm, MK were a bunch of murdering ******s, who have since taken state sanctioned corruption to a whole new level. But Mandela had a plan and fortunately sane heads prevailed and he was listened to

Look at the great politicians of the 20th century:
There were great statesmen but not great politicians - Churchill
Great politicians who were not statesmen
Great statesman and politician - there was only one: FD Roosevelt

Madiba was one of the 1st - a statesman but he was a pretty ineffectual president. Saying that, the 2 muppets that followed him: Mbeki and Zuma have been even worse

Mandela was a big picture guy who could see what needed to be done and made it happen (as did De Klerk and co). His vision of the Rainbow nation that is starting all over with the past left behind was grand and bold. It's just a pity that it hasn't really been followed through

Mandela was great, needed and will go down as one of the greats of history. I just wish that the people who have followed on could be the same. Alas, they are the complete opposite and I now fear for the future of my country

RIP big fella

Re: Mandela RIP
 

End of an era. He paid his debts to society and made reparation upon his release.

RIP Mandela.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

He didn't pay his debt to society - he made society. Without him there would have been a bloodbath.

He risked everything for others. Anyone who thinks there can be a clean war with no ugliness and murder is quite wrong - the overwhelming question is when is it necessary. Sometimes it is. South Africans were being murdered every day, fast or slowly, during apartheid. Mandela did not initially support the armed movement, but in the end saw it as necessary. He was probably right - it seems unlikely that without that pressure that Pretoria would have led the way solo towards a better society. Were those who fought against Franco in Spain terrorists, for example?

Can Mandela be held responsible for the corruption in the South African government? Don't really see how. It's everywhere, all over the African continent and pretty much every other continent too - sometimes it's just dressed up more prettily, but it's not less corrupt and no less blood is spilled in the end. It just gets spilled in countries further away from where that government resides.

It's very easy to point the finger when you have never chosen to stand up for anything, or had to make any difficult decisions, and never risked anything (I don't mean you personally - "one")

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I don't dispute that he made society. But he had his own redemption to work through first.

I agree with that.

I personally believe Mandela's work as a peace advocate achieved more for the anti-apartheid cause than his militant years.

Those who used terrorist tactics were. Those who didn't, weren't.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

400,000 people have been murdered in South Africa since Mandela was released. Good job there wasn't a bloodbath.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Yeah. Things were supposed to get better - or so the rest of the world told us

Re: Mandela RIP
 

:goodpost: A very sad day.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

+1

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I remember asking my dad who was he ? Rip Mandela and me ole dad xx as far as I am concerned he was practically a Scottish Mandela, some times I forget !

It's a personal thing!! I don't do my dad justice!

Re: Mandela RIP
 

And you hold him personally responsible? And not the apartheid government that set up a system that entrenched inequality, ignorance, deprivation and brutality on a massive scale for decades and decades before Mandela was released?

Perhaps, then, you would like to compare Mandela to Mugabe - just to help you understand the difference.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

He was the right man to breathe in reconcilliatory tones during the South African transition to full democracy, but he could have played a leading role for a bit longer than he did. He failed to speak out against Mugabe and sat quietly by while his successors went from bad to worse. But on balance I'd say he was a good, well-intentioned man. Hopefully he's left South Africa with a lasting legacy.

RIP Nelson

Re: Mandela RIP
 

From the BBC, a quote from Mandela.

"We watch with sadness the continuing tragedy in Darfur. Nearer to home we have seen the outbreak of violence against fellow Africans in our own country and the tragic failure of leadership in our neighbouring Zimbabwe."

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Yes he spoke out once but said and did nothing more after that. But admittedly he was a very old man even then.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

You said he had "prevented a bloodbath". I'm just pointing out that the "bloodbath" continues year after year in SA and that attacks on white's have reached the point, that SA made it onto the genocide watch list.

I'll let you apportion blame for that. You're pretty good at it.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

There were a number of posts that were becoming a little hostile, and whilst I don't personally like 'speaking' the way some of the discussion has gone, I accept that feelings run high and people have the right to express that. But the Barbie is not really the place for some of the language used or sentiments expressed so I've moved the more objectionable comments (trying to keep the gist of the conversation) to a new thread in TIO, where more colourful language is more acceptable. If your post is missing it is likely here - http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817107

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I can't see how any of these 'missing' posts are hostile IMO. Are we not allowed to debate anymore?

Re: Mandela RIP
 

+1

BE is being over moderated yet again

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Uh huh.

Well, let's see.

Those who hail him as an example of the best of humanity, a man with a goal of peace and reconciliation, a vast capacity for forgiveness, an example of courage, and express their respect for his life and sadness at his passing include The Dalai Lama, the Queen of England, Prince Charles, Nadine Gordimer, FW de Klerk, Archbishop Tutu, a host of world leaders, sportsmen, artists and masses of just ordinary people including white South Aricans, and a lot, lot more. And then there's you and a handful of other armchair critics on BE who are loud and brave from behind their keyboards.

Now, let me see which list I feel carries more weight.......

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Well some of them were certainly rude and objectionable - but I agree, no need to make them go away. We aren't children.

Well most of us aren't anyway.:D

Re: Mandela RIP
 

No it's not, there is a time and a place for everything. If BE was over moderated the posts would no longer exist ;)

old.sparkles made a judgement call, one which I agree with. So you can still carry on with the conversation if you wish to follow those posts, just in a different location.

Thanks all, as you were.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Funny that I've just made exactly the same observation, in a totally different thread and involving a different moderator.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

I can't make any sense of them over there by themselves in the other thread.

Then again, maybe it's not a location problem......

Re: Mandela RIP
 

But but...surely you must read them and get a right laugh. :lol::D

Re: Mandela RIP
 

:rofl: :sneaky: Do you have any specific ones in mind :p

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Sorry to old.sparkles and sue, but I have to agree - this was moderation born out of a dislike of what was said; and a desire to make it 'go away'. As I said in my post (which certainly should not have been 'disappeared') there is a tendency to deification of public figures that doesn't do anyone a service. Considering that Mandela himself said he wasn't a saint, and shouldn't be treated as such, it's a bit rich to have posts pointing up this reality removed.

Either disappear the entire thread on the basis of having nothing to do with Australia (a valid position) or leave it - don't attempt to editorialise.

Re: Mandela RIP
 

:tape::D

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post

I personally pulled the trigger that ended a few of Mandela's communist terrorist **** mates, so it's all good


So are you going to name people who you so '"heroically" murdered because you didn't agree with their politics? Or did you do that at the truth & reconciliation commission? Or did you just LEAVE the country?

Re: Mandela RIP
 

Promote that man :thumbsup:

Re: Mandela RIP
 

It's rare that I would agree with you but you've got this spot on