OzTennis

It shows that reducing spending to fund tax cuts for the better off is more important than the lip service paid about more policing. Your tiresome more Glock 17's is no answer. Would it have prevented Westminster, Manchester and London Bridge? Yes or No.

morpeth

Historians 100 years from now will scratch their heads trying to explain the events of the 21st century in the USA, UK and Europe,

Amazulu

Fact: All police are armed in virtually all countries - even the most left-wing, PC, namby pamby ones like Denmark, Canada and Sweden. Why not the UK? In these insecure, terrorist-ridden times, why not? What's your fundamental opposition?

Would armed bobbies have prevented:
Westminster - almost certainly
Manchester - probably not
London Bridge - a good chance that it would - maybe the number of casualties would have been less

2 out of 3 ain't bad and there are some dead people who would not be dead if the cops had been armed

Wake up

morpeth

The only positive thing about May and the terrorism issue is she isn't Diane Abbot.

If people were outraged there would be more pressure out on politicians to act more decisively.

What issue about "why" this is happening ? Radical Islamic extremism ideology in a percentage of the Islamic community. What to be done ? More. More police, more surveillance, more deportations, more shutting down Mosques or Islamic schools, more hacking Islamic websites and shutting them down. Tougher laws and increased power to the intelligence services.

morpeth

Good point about letting them go to ISIS- my thought if there passport restricted for travel to Syria, Libya or Somalia without pre-authorization, good reason to not let them back in the country. Maybe announce to Muslims that any one who prefers Sharia law will be given a one way ticket to Saudi Arabia or Syria.

I agree May hardly the decisive strong leader to confront the issue, except Dianne Abbot much worse. Saw her on an interview the other day, absolutely clueless.

OzTennis

Westminster - rubbish, how does a policeman with a Glock 17 know to position himself on W Bridge and shoot the guy as he speeds up before mowing down the pedestrians? You are saying that identifying a van speeding up from 30 mph in literally a split second can be prevented?

How would they know they were going to appear on L Bridge at 10.00 pm on Saturday evening?

The societies with the highest amount of gun ownership and armed police (e.g. US) have far higher murder rates.

Britain, Irish Republic and NZ are examples of countries where all officers aren't armed; in Norway guns are in vehicles and not carried in person. The most recent surveys of police in the UK show they don't wish to be armed but you would force them to be armed by holding a Glock 17 to their head?!

OzTennis

We've got fewer police so another May U-turn you are calling for?

Is it as easy as shutting down schools and mosques if idiots interpret the bits of a religion in the way they do? Were Anglican and RC schools shut down in NI as a result of the 'troubles'?

Yep, I'm all for tougher laws and closer surveillance on the internet. I haven't seen claims that the intelligence services have insufficient power and the UK government is introducing/recently introduced powers to be more of a 'big brother' and monitor what people view.

Amazulu

A pathetic and ridiculous reply. It is very hard for anyone to stop a vehicle being used as a weapon in an urban area - which is why these assholes use them. Look at Nice, the police couldn't stop that truck driver until the very end. But PC Keith Palmer would probably be alive today if he'd had a 9mil. Fact - policemen and civilians are dying in the UK because beat bobbies are not armed. As for LB, the 3 guys running around stabbing people is a classic case for the intervention of armed patrol officers - a situation that they should be training for endlessly. People at LB who are dead today could very well still be alive, maybe not all of them but at least some of them

Again, seeing as you never answered my question, why is it okay for police to be armed in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Vancouver but not London and Manchester? What's the difference? What's the fundamental opposition? Innocent people are dying champ

Amazulu

Okay, UK should have 20k more police officers. That would work for me if 40k bureaucrats were axed to pay for them - 1 in 2 out

Everyone would be a winner

OzTennis

Pardon the pun but you shoot yourself in the foot with your opening paragraph - exactly, arming police won't stop these incidents.

How can armed police possibly be in exactly the right spot when needed, at all times?

I don't believe arming police to the teeth is the answer, you do, I don't; the police don't want to be armed. You will never prevent innocent people dying by arming - look at Trumpland for proof. High tech (rather than low tech) terrorism would probably be the result of arming police.

As soon as someone starts a highly conjectured opinion with fact I don't read on. 'Hope this helps, champ, turbo or whatever'.

Amazulu

I see you're not going to tell us why it is okay for a police officer to be armed in Sydney but not in London - oh well, inevitable really as basically you don't have a credible answer

So we both agree that it is very hard for police to stop a vehicle being used as a weapon - some progress on your part at least

Obviously, police cannot be everywhere all the time (and only you are suggesting this) but where they are present, being armed can make a hell of a difference

An armed PC Keith Palmer would have had a good chance of defending himself, but he wasn't, so he died

I was reading today about a cop taking on the LB attackers with a truncheon. Very brave and noble but if he'd had a Glock instead we could have had terrorists dead quicker and innocents still alive today - but hey, it's more important for cops to be unarmed in order to fit in with some outdated notions

Who cares if the police don't want to be armed - the decision would not be theirs. The police are public servants who serve in a quasi-military security organisation. If the government tells them they are going to be routinely armed, then that's what happens or they take their labour somewhere else

Wake up

OzTennis

Do you need to be told that Australians have armed officers but the British don't because the same decision making process and organisations aren't used? Some countries have decided to arm officers; some countries have decided not to. Do we have cannabis in London cafes because they have it in Amsterdam? (By your reasoning Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Paris agreement because virtually all other major countries have signed up but that's another matter).

Keith Palmer's standard issue stab vest failed; better stab vests?

It's a democratic society and you are meant to be a libertarian (haha, little free thinking in evidence) so you don't take the views of the people on the 'coal face' into account? No, you tell public servants what they shall do and they can stuff it if they won't.

I suppose you were you also reading about the innocent member of the public who was hit by one of the 50 bullets? This is one of the arguments against more police carrying guns.

morpeth

If the Mosques and some schools contributing to the Muslim youth adopting or supporting violent extremism, then just shut them down. Whether that was done in NI or not isnt the issue- the issue is today.

If May and this government havent been able to get tougher, then perhaps simply more pressure need to be put on government to to take more measures to improve security.

More police, and why not hire more Muslims as liason officials or consultants of some sort with their communities and police.

I dont know all the answers but more is better than less at this point.

morpeth

If the police whose lives are on the line don't wish to be armed, but are dedicated to serving the public, what is the reason they give ? I would think know better than all of us what works, after all I dont think they are suicidal as a group.

spouse of scouse

I don't know how much effect this will have on would-be - I've run out of words to call them - but I see this loud condemnation by Imams as a positive.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...idge-attackers