OzTennis

Your friend says it's all determined by demand and supply. That's the result. The market says that's what tube drivers are worth.

On the subject of fairness, how about top management salaries in the UK rising by 5 times the rate of inflation to an average of £5.5 mill p.a. in 2015? I've got a feeling you'll say they're worth it, it's what you pay to attract top talent etc, the stock right wing responses (whilst slamming into unions and salaries 1/100 of this).

https://www.theguardian.com/business...salary-hit-55m

Beoz

So its not expensive then as we have good economic performance which breeds a good salary average.

You called me a JAWP. What is that?

Beoz

Don't care. Private company. They get paid whatever the shareholders think they should be paid. No skin of my nose and its should be any resentful skin off yours.

I paid for tube drivers. I think they are overpaid.

How's that for fairness.

OzTennis

Private, public, all do a job which gets a remuneration. Question - if a private company makes a loss or an increasing loss should top management take a salary cut, not be paid bonuses etc? e.g. RBS (which is owned by the public) makes billions of losses and the directors pay themselves millions in bonuses to 'reward' themselves whilst paying out less to shareholders.

Incidentally customers pay for the remuneration of privately owned businesses directors - do they get a say in salary levels like you claim to to get a say in tube drivers remuneration because you pay taxes (well paid taxes you don't live in the UK anymore as far as I know).

Beoz

Customers of privaty held companies can go elsewhere if they don't like the salaries of the staff.

The commuters of London cannot go elsewhere. Not only can they not get to work when they strike, those who work for themselves loose money.

You rational has not an equivelent.

OzTennis

Privaty? Loose? Equivelent? You rational?

You haven't commented on why you compared starting salaries in some jobs with senior positions for drivers nor why it irks you so much what a few drivers on 1/100 of average top management salaries earn.

You haven't commented on whether managers should be rewarded when the business makes losses nor why they give themselves increases on average 5 times the rate of inflation when times are tough.

You don't seriously think customers know salaries of management do you and base their decision on whether to buy or not on this? Besides, they are all rewarding themselves handsomely.

London Underground is virtually the only part of the rail network in Britain which hasn't been privatised. Even then it is in local government hands as part of TfL and only 23% of their funding comes from central government. It is a statutory local government authority with a board like a private company. Take up your gripes with them.

Tube does NOT have a monopoly - customers can go elsewhere, have you not heard of bus, taxi, private car or Shanks pony for short journeys in inner London?

Beoz

Tube drivers aren't senior positions. They drive a tube.

I don't need to comment if senior managers make a loss. They don't answer to you and me. Its not your decision sunshine. Tube workers work for you and me.

Have you ever travelled from Zone 3 to Zone 1 in central London in a taxi or bus? Obviously not. The city would break and Tube drivers hold their pay masters to ransom for the privilege of that.

OzTennis

That's what I like, a reasoned debate.

They are a senior position - do you think someone leaves school and drives a tube train in London?

The notion that someone 'works for you and me' as an argument that they should be paid peanuts doesn't warrant comment. It's news to me though that the London Underground now extends to the eastern suburbs of Sydney and to Scotland and Melbourne.

The daughter of the Grantham grocer would just get rid of anyone with the temerity to ask for more money.

I'll try again - £49K is 1/112 of £5.5 mill to put it in context.

Meanwhile, poor old Zlatan Ibrahimovic has lost £21K a week due to the fall in the pound post Brexit as he signed a deal before the referendum. He only earns £220K a week now or 1.5 days of his wages = tube driver yearly remuneration. In the scheme of things is someone responsible for moving hundreds of thousands of people in a tube underground worth Monday and Tuesday to lunchtime of Zlatan?

I've finished on this - let the thread get back to OP, I know your p.o.v.

Beoz

Finish on whatever you like. I will never be resentful towards someone who earns more than me, unlike some, mainly government workers like school teachers.

I don't get the resentment. There's no justification for it. They are just better than you. Or chose a better path in life. They contribute more towards your teachers salary. Be grateful. Accept it, move on.

Amazulu

It is expensive but incomes (and disposable incomes) are high by international standards - so when, say, an American comes here, they would find it expensive. On the other hand, someone from Singapore (land of the $24 gin and tonic) would find it relatively affordable. Norway is ultra-expensive but people there enjoy a very high standard of living, with the majority of people being able to afford a nice house, car, consumer goods and to eat well

It's a bit more complicated than this but basically correct

JAWP is my term for whinging pom and I never called you one. I was referring to those BE posters that constantly complain about the COL in Australia but never refer to the upside

Beoz

I get you - I think we are on the same lines.

OzTennis

You have no logic at all; you start with an argument about how overpaid tube drivers are (compared to teachers) and then you get on to teachers. I know you won't understand this but some people choose a career path for reasons other than income and get fulfillment out of teaching and serving others. Your English teacher will despair but we do have some successes.

Point out the post where I complained about teachers salaries - I thought I was arguing about the tube drivers and how little they are really paid in comparison to others (1/112 and yet you bang on about the 1, taking the 112 for granted as fair and reasonable).

Beoz

Same logic as someone who starts talking about CEO's of privately held companies. No relevance.

the troubadour

You being relative newly arrived in this country, have most likely little insight into how living standards were pre arrival. Australia is a very expensive country with wages that increasingly do not service the inflated additional cost over the past dozen years or so.
A country like Norway provides pensions of considerable note come retirement. Singapore being an autocracy still supplies very good ,price controlled housing. A little socialist, one would have thought for the likes of yourself.
Australia provides a barely liveable pension and pushing ever more for a transfer of what was a pretty decent equitable system, to give more to those least in need and take from the poorer members.


There are few, if any upsides to COL inflation in Australia.

the troubadour

I must admit logic is not a word on the tip of my tongue, reading your posts.