OzTennis

Not specific to OP but on the general point of how wages and salaries are determined demand and supply is one factor affecting the remuneration to labour. Among other factors which affect wages and salaries there are these for starters - Ability to Pay, Prevailing Market Rates, Cost of Living, Bargaining of Trade Unions, Productivity, Government Regulations and Cost of Training.

In a purely competitive labour market demand and supply would be the only factor but we know there is no such thing as this in the real world as it requires many firms competing for labor; the laborers must have identical skills, both the firms and the workers have to be wage takers, since neither can influence the wage rate; there are no unions, since union wages are generally not the result of market supply and demand.

Hope this helps.

Amazulu

Yep. When unions get involved then the market gets distorted - nice gig if you can get it but they do destroy employment, opportunity, productivity, progress etc

Apart from that, the supply/demand equation for the cost of labour is all that's in play when you get down to it - which is why a neurosurgeon earns $750k and a shop assistant 35k

Hope this helps

OzTennis

I thought you'd home in on the role of unions in being one influence on remuneration to labour. Obviously demand and supply are prime determinants but not the only ones. Keep trying champ, as Neil Young says, on most things 'there's more to the picture than meets the eye (hey, hey, my, my)'.

Beoz

Yep. That's why starting policemen, nurses, and teachers earn in the low 20k GBP and a Tube driver earns 49k GBP. Good old unions making a mockery of fairness.

OzTennis

I won't go into how unions representing the professions you mentioned are stymied by the public such as you in taking any sort of action or battling for higher salaries, that's another issue.

Why are you comparing starting salaries of teachers etc with senior positions on the train driving side - i.e. you don't start off working for London underground as a tube driver? You make a mockery of logical, reasoned, evidenced argument frankly. Station assistant circa £19K p.a.

Beoz

Awwww poor buggers need to start at the bottom.

On top of that 43 days off (including bank holidays), a free travel pass to get around London for you and your other half, a 36-hour working week and full retirement at 60 (although you can retire early at 50 if you like).

And a bunch of days off care of tube strikes.

Left wing inequality at its finest.

ozzieeagle

I arrived in Australia fresh from a UK job where I was paid well above the average salary.... this was as a Telex op with 7 years worth of specialist shipbroking knowledge. In Australia most of these jobs were carried out by a single secretary at around the average wage. I did find a large company up in Sydney that had potential for me. In the meantime I found what I thought was a fill in job, in a role that was totally alien to me and in fact a role that I kept very quiet about to the folks back in the UK as I was quite ashamed with myself that I had "seemingly" sunk to that employment level.

This is where the true nature of the Australian masses psyche came well and truly home to me. Everyone here thought it was great that I had a job where I worked from my own address for 3.5 hours per day at close to the average wage. No one looked own on me, in fact the vast majority of people probed me on to "How do i get in" ? and they meant it as well. That job was Gas meter reader, which I kept to for the next 16 years. That job meant short hours, the ability to run a side business, it meant I had the means to get a mortgage, raise a family, and when the Gas and fuel was privatised it meant I had a fully paid of house due to 16 years worth of redundancy payments.


I reckon it took me over 4 years to tell most people in the UK that I was meter reading..... I'm so glad that I'm nothing like that uppity little shite that had that attitude back in those days.

I'll go even further that now 36 years later all I've known in Australia are blue collar jobs, which are a total contrast to my UK job record of 10 years in Londons square mile. Those blue collar jobs as I approach retirement, have left me in a very comfortable position. I'm looking forwards to enjoying just about anything that that vast majority of people could wish for.

The reason I'm posting this, this best advice I can possibly give to any newcomer is if you see a position in front of you that you would never have considered in the UK, it's quite likely the door to success in Australia.


Thanks Australia, apparently I'm well in the top 10 pct of wealthiest on the Planet.... all due to blue collar work here for 36 years in Australia.


Makes me wonder where I would have been when that City employment crash came in the late 80's.

Beoz

You would probably be in the top 2% ........ never mind ..... 10% is good

ozzieeagle

I think it is the top 2 pct of world population actually.... but the Australian part of me that is well and truly entrenched now wont push that point.

It's amazing what Melbourne city housing and two lots of 36 years worth of government super are worth.... Obviously I'm including my wife's wealth in this

So 10pct will do ....

Beoz

Its a pity you have not be able to access either until you retire and sell up.

There's a whole life of stuff you've missed with all that cash tied up in housing and super.

Amazulu

They are the only ones - economics 101

ozzieeagle

Probably, that also comes along with having kids.

Point I'm wanting to make to the OP is go with the flow, if you see something you would have never considered in the UK, chances are that it could be an opportunity that will pay dividends.

The salary inconsistencies between the UK and Australia can actually work in your favour.... especially in what UK people would generally call low end jobs.

IE: Stop go traffic controllers @ 35 bucks per hour (weekends) Baristas 30 bucks per hour..... etc etc etc etc etc.... there's a long list of jobs that pay a hell of a lot more in Aus than the UK, especially in what UK people would call the bottom end. A situation which most Aussies dont give a tinkers cuss about.


Lets put it this way, I doubt very much whether I would have considered coming to Australia if I'd had known that I was going to end up reading Gas meter reading for 16 years. However that supposedly lowly work has given me a lifestyle that most UK people never get..... Especially when you consider Melbourne keeps winning those best city in the world to live awards. Plus I cannot emphasise enough how much of a release it is to be free of the social stigma of "You are what you work as" which I think pervades UK society. It did take me a long while to get over that feeling though... probably 8 years before I was totally free of it.

Beoz

.....and they say Australia is expensive ..... hardly on those salaries.

Amazulu

Australia is expensive but it is a sign of a successful economy - poverty is not a big issue - despite what certain sectors of the media would have us believe

High prices are a byproduct of good economic performance. You see this all over the world - look at Norway. Other countries can have average or low economic performance with relatively high prices - New Zealand (and others but no names as I don't want to fight a shit storm)

I know this doesn't fit in with the viewpoint of your average BE JAWP with an axe to grind but there it is

ozzieeagle

It also leads to one of the most egalitarian societies on the planet, probably the most in the Anglo world, and possibly the biggest culture shock that UK people face.