Gollywogs are back!

Old May 20th 2012, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

I saw Golliwogs for sale up on Mount Tamborine a few years back. After my inital reaction of 'OMG! Are they allowed sell these?? aren't they banned?' I stepped down a level to reminiscing. having fond childhood memories (my Grandma had made me one/Robinsons jam) and wondering if I should buy one and how would I hide the 'spend' from my Husband.

That's as deep as it went for me....no harm in them, just a whiplash reserved English response.

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Old May 20th 2012, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Jan4kids View Post
I saw Golliwogs for sale up on Mount Tamborine a few years back. After my inital reaction of 'OMG! Are they allowed sell these?? aren't they banned?' I stepped down a level to reminiscing. having fond childhood memories (my Grandma had made me one/Robinsons jam) and wondering if I should buy one and how would I hide the 'spend' from my Husband.

That's as deep as it went for me....no harm in them, just a whiplash reserved English response.

Jan
they still sell them there Jan
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Old May 20th 2012, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

I know Maybe I should take a drive and buy one after all ........but then I'd have to hide it, and where's the fun in that? lol!

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Old May 20th 2012, 11:01 pm
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Here are some of the kinds of images I referred to, which are part of the reason why the golliwog really isn't just a doll. Sorry, you have to click on the links for the first three.










Last edited by Lion in Winter; May 20th 2012 at 11:05 pm.
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Old May 20th 2012, 11:56 pm
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Maybe one's perception of this depends on where/when one grew up. The problem with the golliwog doll isn't that it is black, but that it represents derisive racial stereotyping with the clown lips and big white grin that people did actually think was acceptable (cf some Tintin stories, etc.). They aren't actual "ethnic" or culturally representative dolls. They don't look like actual people at all, yet that is how black people were represented in Europe and the US (another example would be the black person eating the watermelon slice, etc.). This is the source of the problem - if they were just cuddly dolls, then fine, but they aren't. They are loaded with a long history of prejudice.

I don't know that it's a matter for governmental interference as to whether they should be on sale - just personal good taste I would have thought.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The gollywog dolls are racial caricatures that are no longer acceptable.
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Old May 21st 2012, 12:07 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Maybe one's perception of this depends on where/when one grew up. The problem with the golliwog doll isn't that it is black, but that it represents derisive racial stereotyping with the clown lips and big white grin that people did actually think was acceptable (cf some Tintin stories, etc.). They aren't actual "ethnic" or culturally representative dolls. They don't look like actual people at all, yet that is how black people were represented in Europe and the US (another example would be the black person eating the watermelon slice, etc.). This is the source of the problem - if they were just cuddly dolls, then fine, but they aren't. They are loaded with a long history of prejudice.

I don't know that it's a matter for governmental interference as to whether they should be on sale - just personal good taste I would have thought.
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:26 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
A good thing.

Basically the designs of these dolls today isn't so much the minstrels version of 40 years ago, and the name got changed - so what you're left with is, a black skinned doll.

For the white skinned child that gives them white and black skinned dolls that they play with equally. For the black skinned child that gives them a doll that looks like them.

In short, too many adults looking back and thinking what they are told by PC zealots - the kids aren't so dumb.

A doll that looks like them?

Which one is that then?




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Old May 21st 2012, 1:37 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by renth View Post
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The gollywog dolls are racial caricatures that are no longer acceptable.
Interesting article on the creation and derivation of the doll :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ntroversy.html

Interesting to note that the 'wogg' part of the original name predates its possibly parallel derivation as a negative term. As for it being a caricature; its a doll, not a life model - what would you expect?

As I said earlier, the problem is the PC crowd and those looking backward rather than forward.
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:43 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Interesting article on the creation and derivation of the doll :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ntroversy.html

Interesting to note that the 'wogg' part of the original name predates its possibly parallel derivation as a negative term. As for it being a caricature; its a doll, not a life model - what would you expect?

As I said earlier, the problem is the PC crowd and those looking backward rather than forward.

So you feel that the racial caricature doesn't matter?
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:49 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
But to me the first one is a doll which is played with as though the child is playing with another child, recreating lifelike scenarios, therefore should be lifelike. The second one is a cuddly toy which isn't lifelike, in much the same way that an Elmer the Elephant isn't lifelike.

Children do not differentiate between colours in people until they have been taught to do so by circumstance. Show a gollywog to a child and they will see a cuddly toy with a happy face, they will not see a negative representation of a black person unless forced to do so by an adult. It only becomes a racist toy when an adult evaluates it against history and personal perception. Imo anyway.
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:52 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
So you feel that the racial caricature doesn't matter?
If Aboriginals find the dolls racist (ie, as has been stated in the original article) then surely there's a duty not to sell them regardless of what us white folk think as to whether they are harmless retro-fun or a passe racial stereotype?
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:53 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
So you feel that the racial caricature doesn't matter?
It's a doll, it's a caricature, or did you think Barbie was accurate? Getting bent out of shape about it is majorly missing the big picture and the big issues. Net positive in my book - particularly compared to ghetto 'culture' that they'll be exposed to a few years later.
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:55 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by Turban Explorer View Post
If Aboriginals find the dolls racist (ie, as has been stated in the original article) then surely there's a duty not to sell them regardless of what us white folk think as to whether they are harmless retro-fun or a passe racial stereotype?
Nope, that way lies madness.

You don't give one group carte blanche to impose their idea of 'offensive' on others, otherwise I have a long list of things I want to get banned...
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Old May 21st 2012, 1:55 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Interesting article on the creation and derivation of the doll :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ntroversy.html
Daily Mail garbage, good for a laugh though.

I found this site very interesting. This bit as about the gollywog but if you click on the link labelled caricatures you can read about all sorts of different stuff.

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/golliwog/

Anyone remember this? It's probably sitting in someones shed covered in dust...

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Old May 21st 2012, 2:01 am
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Default Re: Gollywogs are back!

Originally Posted by renth View Post
I found this site very interesting. This bit as about the gollywog but if you click on the link labelled caricatures you can read about all sorts of different stuff.

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/golliwog/
American, commenting on the cultures of others - and we know just how incapable they are of taking cultural context into account. Says more about the hangups of the author than it does about anything else.
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