Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11474881)

I kind of agree. MMGW is not happening so we should be doing nothing. The carbon tax was stupid and needed to be got rid of but direct action is not much better. Thing is, all governments are caught up in the bullshit - herd mentality. At least Australia and Canada are not doing much - which is a bonus

Companies and organisations should be allowed to develop power systems as they see fit and can make a profit - as long as the taxpayer and consumer are not subsidising them. Australia has so much natural gas that it's not funny. If the government truly believes that we need to reduce CO2 then we should be building gas plants on an epic scale yet very little is being done. Instead of wasting money on DA or the CT, spend it on building some solar collectors instead. We need to avoid wind turbines as the are stupidly inefficient and ineffective

And what about the elephant in the room, nuclear? We should be going down the nuke path but it will never happen as the debate has effectively been hijacked by the Australia-hating greens/left, and governments are too timid to pursue it. Give the UK their due, they are restarting a nuke path (albeit built by the French government and financed by the Chinese government) to ensure their energy security - hats off to them

The whole debate is riddled with hypocrisy, lies, smoke and mirrors and plain old bullshit. We get told to look at countries like Germany, Denmark, Scanditopia etc as perfect examples of how to do renewables, when the reality is somewhat different. And now we are told China and the US are taking 'action' - what a load of bollocks. Unfortunately, the herd often gets its way

Originally Posted by Toe Dipper (Post 11474768)

Now my take on the G20 is that I was heartily disappointed.

I went into the CBD on the Saturday, against all the advice. Parked in a central car park and spent my time looking for action. I wanted to see mounted cops charging teaming protesters, whilst they bayed for capitalist blood. Kettling protesters in the heat would take on a greater significance - just how hot would the kettle go? How many shopfronts would still be intact in the Queen Street mall?

As far as spectacle and bystander entertainment is concerned, there was more action in a wriggling goldfish gasping for air. The height of reaction - burning a flag :huh:

London puts on a far greater spectacle when it comes to riots.:rofl:



TD

Originally Posted by knockoff nige (Post 11475331)

Well actually, the Coalition is not doing as little as possible like you suggest. They are doing nothing but happy to be seen to be doing something. What they really wanted out of this is tax payers money going to the private sector. These companies will find ways to get that money without doing anything for it. At least with the carbon tax they were paying something towards the destruction they are causing.

Thank heavens we haven't had nuclear power discussions. We don't have a responsible government to have such an energy option, let alone build it.

Originally Posted by jad n rich (Post 11475431)

EG, the Uranium Deal being negotiated/signed with India, that ones slipping under the mat, while the free trade deal with China gets a big shout.

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11475660)

Plenty in the news about this but it's not a big deal (but still a good deal) so doesn't make the headlines

Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 11475698)

It's a crying shame (and ignorantly shortsighted) that we don't do more with our uranium exports - we could provide partial or full processing onshore, adding value and selling at a premium, rather than just shipping off ore.

But as a nation it appears that we're not considered mature enough to be able to even have a conversation about it.

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 11475707)

Too much thrall to the miners, not enough strategic vision.

There shouldn't be exports of raw materials that aren't taxed into unviability. Instead everything should get refined and processed in Oz before export - keeping the value and jobs here. Goes for farming too.

It's what Saudi Arabia have been doing. Chemicals rather than gas. They've been pushing solar too, and nuclear....

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11475658)

MMGW/carbon pollution (:rolleyes:) is probably the biggest anti-west, anti-wealth, anti-democracy con ever pulled by the left, so I'm glad that great countries like Australia, the US and Canada are doing little/nothing. They give hope that there is still some sanity left in the international community

Originally Posted by knockoff nige (Post 11475714)

If the Coalition believe it is a scam but yet still want to be seen as doing sonething, it looks to me to be simply opportunistic to pay the big polluters to change their ways.

Originally Posted by knockoff nige (Post 11475714)

If the Coalition believe it is a scam but yet still want to be seen as doing sonething, it looks to me to be simply opportunistic to pay the big polluters to change their ways.

Do you believe in pollution? Do you think that the big polluters should be responsible for the damage they cause? As many aren't doing anything or anywhere near enough, shouldn't there be a penalty for that?

But we're held to ransom by big business as they give us jobs. Irrelevant that the jobs are in demand because of the people living here and using their services.

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 11475719)

Even if you are brain dead enough to not recognise climate change, and the massive threat it poses. Even if you can't accept that; it's STILL sensible to be moving away from fossil fuels, since we KNOW they are finite, and the availability and price WILL get worse over time.

There's only one justification to keep on with the BAU and not make those changes - and that's that you own a mine/well/etc and are basically saying "f**k the future, I want to make as much money as possible now, and then run away before they come looking for my head".

Originally Posted by knockoff nige (Post 11475714)

If the Coalition believe it is a scam but yet still want to be seen as doing sonething, it looks to me to be simply opportunistic to pay the big polluters to change their ways.

Do you believe in pollution? Do you think that the big polluters should be responsible for the damage they cause? As many aren't doing anything or anywhere near enough, shouldn't there be a penalty for that?

But we're held to ransom by big business as they give us jobs. Irrelevant that the jobs are in demand because of the people living here and using their services.

Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 11475708)

Yup, agreed. Generating the economic and knowledge bases required for these industries is a smart economic move. Instead we seem happy to let others do that.

Plus, by refining and processing uranium ore before export we are severely limiting the likelihood that it can be processed into plutonium for use in warheads.


S

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11475771)

China is the largest consumer of coal in the world. Its also the largest producer of coal. They have massive reserves in the North which isn't enough to satisfy their hunger. They also lack the infrastructure to transport it to the south. Step up Australia. Easy shipping from Oz to Southern China. Despite the lip service, they will just continue to be consumption junkies. If Australia doesn't supply them someone else will fill the void.