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The Future of Australia
Right now WA is riding an economic boom.....however it (and all of Australia) is in a commodity driven environment. What will WA and the rest of Australia rely on when the energy and mineral resources dry up? I mean, when nothings left, or our Asian clients decide they no longer need what we have.
As far as I am aware their is no commercial export manufacturing in Australia. Should we rely on tourism? I'm interested in everyones thoughts Cheers LL |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 5752380)
Right now WA is riding an economic boom.....however it (and all of Australia) is in a commodity driven environment. What will WA and the rest of Australia rely on when the energy and mineral resources dry up? I mean, when nothings left, or our Asian clients decide they no longer need what we have.
As far as I am aware their is no commercial export manufacturing in Australia. Should we rely on tourism? I'm interested in everyones thoughts Cheers LL |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 5752380)
Right now WA is riding an economic boom.....however it (and all of Australia) is in a commodity driven environment. What will WA and the rest of Australia rely on when the energy and mineral resources dry up? I mean, when nothings left, or our Asian clients decide they no longer need what we have.
As far as I am aware their is no commercial export manufacturing in Australia. Should we rely on tourism? I'm interested in everyones thoughts Cheers LL |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5754028)
Australia will become just a desolate backwater as seen in Mad Max films.....Science fiction is not always that far away from fact.
I am the Nightrider. I'm a fuel injected suicide machine. I am the rocker, I am the roller, I am the out-of-controller! :lol: |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Hutch
(Post 5754069)
You say that like it'd be a bad thing.
I am the Nightrider. I'm a fuel injected suicide machine. I am the rocker, I am the roller, I am the out-of-controller! :lol: |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5754028)
Well the arab world spend huge amounts from thier oil on diversifiying thier industry to other sectors. Here it's all wasted. My money is on a world dominated by china and some of the Arab states, Australia will become just a desolate backwater as seen in Mad Max films.....Science fiction is not always that far away from fact.
Will it be before you develop a backbone and go back to blighty, and whats the uk going to be like when all this happens down here. Also, can I have the winning lotto numbers for 2009 for the uk lottery please. :p |
Re: The Future of Australia
With all this talk about the mining boom I think people start to think that this is all that Australia does. The WA mining boom is just the icing on the cake it's not the whole economy (although the peeps in WA would like to think that).
On the mining front there is a lot of stuff to dig up and there are a lot of customers. As well as China, demand is starting to increase from India. These 2 countries represent something like one third of the world's population, that's a lot of customers, and the Indians like their gold. Agriculture is still going fairly strong. It's been hit a bit by the drought but it's still bringing in the wonga. Tourism brings in a great deal of money and will continue to do so. Australia does well at hosting major sporting events and will continue to do so. It wouldn't surprise me if someone in FFA was working on bringing the Soccer World to Aus. Pharma seems to be a growth area. And Aus is investing in the future. It's spending on roads and ports, although it is fair to say that the investment in ports should have started earlier as they are now unable to serve the current export needs. Aus has created the future fund which will pay for public service pensions in the future and superannuation will continue to build up wealth which is not only available for investment but should reduce the pension burden on the ageing population. Aus miners are now digging up stuff all over the world including China and India, they're not just limited to the resources found here. One area where Aus should be investing but hasn't been is renewable energy. We've got loads of land, sea, sunshine and wind. We could become the world leaders in this technology but little Johnny Howard wanted to play catch-up with the big boys of nuclear. Not only is nuclear an environmentally stupid idea for Aus it's also economically stupid. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
(Post 5754319)
One area where Aus should be investing but hasn't been is renewable energy. We've got loads of land, sea, sunshine and wind. We could become the world leaders in this technology but little Johnny Howard wanted to play catch-up with the big boys of nuclear. Not only is nuclear an environmentally stupid idea for Aus it's also economically stupid.
There are over 8000 beaches around the coast, I for one wouldnt want to see any of them spoilt by giant concrete windmills, which arent exactly good for the environment when you consider what they are made of (steel reinforced concrete & aluminium) |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5754383)
For decades in my memory Australia has shyed away from nuclear energy. In fact, the new submarines that oz navy is going to build arent even nuclear, even when it's the best energy source for subs.
There are over 8000 beaches around the coast, I for one wouldnt want to see any of them spoilt by giant concrete windmills, which arent exactly good for the environment when you consider what they are made of (steel reinforced concrete & aluminium) I think it's not beyond the wit of man to come up with solutions that don't spoil the view. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Also, can I have the winning lotto numbers for 2009 for the uk lottery please. Theres a sea turbine off the coast of Dorset which is remarkably unobtrusive, and with the coastline that Aus has it could be a good way forward. Bottom line with economics is that only economists really understand it, and IMHO it tends to be driven a lot by what the politicians want to happen. Its just that every now and again real people have an impact and thats when it goes TU. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
(Post 5754456)
Johnny was very interested in it (I think he might have been in line for a back scratch from his mates in the industry). I'm surprised you missed all the talk about the nuke options. There was even talk of the Federal Govt overriding the Victorian anti-nuke laws.
I think it's not beyond the wit of man to come up with solutions that don't spoil the view. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5754383)
For decades in my memory Australia has shyed away from nuclear energy. In fact, the new submarines that oz navy is going to build arent even nuclear, even when it's the best energy source for subs.
There are over 8000 beaches around the coast, I for one wouldnt want to see any of them spoilt by giant concrete windmills, which arent exactly good for the environment when you consider what they are made of (steel reinforced concrete & aluminium) All energy resource infrastructure requires some form of building or other, be it a windmill, cooling towers or a solar array. Sadly it seems impossible to please people, as nobody seems to want any of it near them. That said, the interior of the country where there is lots of desert, sunshine and minimal people would make an excellent location for solar furnaces and collection arrays. The only problem then is the loss of efficiency in getting the electricity back to the cities where everybody is. Personally I think windmills look quite graceful, but if memory serves me correctly, much or the Australian coastline shelves too quickly to be suitable for off shore wind farming. S |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Katsmajics other half !!!
(Post 5754083)
I would rather be in a desolated backwater like Australia than in a really fooked place like the way the UK is going.:thumbsup:
Me too:) |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 5752380)
What will WA and the rest of Australia rely on when the energy and mineral resources dry up? I mean, when nothings left, or our Asian clients decide they no longer need what we have.
As far as I am aware their is no commercial export manufacturing in Australia. Should we rely on tourism? I'm interested in everyones thoughts Cheers LL |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5754383)
For decades in my memory Australia has shyed away from nuclear energy. In fact, the new submarines that oz navy is going to build arent even nuclear, even when it's the best energy source for subs.
There are over 8000 beaches around the coast, I for one wouldnt want to see any of them spoilt by giant concrete windmills, which arent exactly good for the environment when you consider what they are made of (steel reinforced concrete & aluminium) Apparently, the energy delivered, in the form of electricity, by a nuclear power station during its operational lifetime, is far less than the energy required for its construction. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Wave technology. My friend is making heaps backing it at the moment.
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by NikiL
(Post 5754497)
You want to wait that long??
Theres a sea turbine off the coast of Dorset which is remarkably unobtrusive, and with the coastline that Aus has it could be a good way forward. Bottom line with economics is that only economists really understand it, and IMHO it tends to be driven a lot by what the politicians want to happen. Its just that every now and again real people have an impact and thats when it goes TU. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Amazulu
(Post 5755966)
Only 20% max. of a modern, Western economy's power can realistically come from renewables - wind, wave, solar, geothermal etc. Wind turbines need to be backed up by diesel generators and are not than efficient. Big base loads can only be provided by nuclear, coal or hydro power plants. Clean coal has a future - especially in a country like Australia that has lots of it. Ditto for gas. Nuclear is the way to go for Australia We have loads of space, coastline, uranium and we can afford it. 6 big nukes should do it - 2 in Qld and one each in NSW, Vic, SA and WA. That, and some coal, gas and hydro and 10-20% from renewables and Australia is set.
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Amazulu
(Post 5755966)
Only 20% max. of a modern, Western economy's power can realistically come from renewables - wind, wave, solar, geothermal etc. Wind turbines need to be backed up by diesel generators and are not than efficient. Big base loads can only be provided by nuclear, coal or hydro power plants. Clean coal has a future - especially in a country like Australia that has lots of it. Ditto for gas. Nuclear is the way to go for Australia We have loads of space, coastline, uranium and we can afford it. 6 big nukes should do it - 2 in Qld and one each in NSW, Vic, SA and WA. That, and some coal, gas and hydro and 10-20% from renewables and Australia is set.
The Portuguese government is aiming for 100% renewable energy. I think they wouldn't be trying if the max they could achieve is 20%. Just because wind turbines (not my preferred option) have a problem providing baseload does not mean that baseload cannot be provided through renewable energy. Some of the generating capacity could be used to create hydrogen which could be used to generate the baseload (similar to LPG). Again it is not beyond the wit of man to come up with solutions. All it needs is people who can think outside the box. The nuke solution is wrong for so many reasons: firstly because it is highly polluting, secondly because it is economically unsound and thirdly because it is inherently dangerous. People may say that the spent fuel of the UK nuke industry only occupies a few football fields but they ignore the regular emissions into the atmosphere and the sea. The Irish sea is now the most radioactive sea in the world. Also what about all the irradiated pipework and plant. That's already filled more than a few football fields. The promised of cheap energy never materialised. This was just a marketing trick when the first nukes were built in the UK and did not take into account the cost of maintenance, reprocessing and decommissioning. 30 years of power and 100s (if not 1000s) of years of decommissioning. If you believe nuclear energy is cheap then you've been spruiked. The only way a government can get private enterprise to build a nuke is by offering free barrow loads of taxpayers' money. Chernobyl shows what happens when it all goes wrong. Oh but that was the USSR! 3 mile island shows what happens when it all goes wrong. And there but for the grace of god goes the UK. Nukes are not cheap, they're not quick, they're not environmentally friendly and they're not simple. It's just a big business solution (i.e. only good for big business) funded with taxpayers' money. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
(Post 5754319)
Not only is nuclear an environmentally stupid idea for Aus it's also economically stupid.
If Australia really was anti nuclear power it should stop exporting the stuff that makes your skin fall off and your hair fall out. |
Re: The Future of Australia
And what does the UK export now days?
Originally Posted by Loch Lomond
(Post 5752380)
Right now WA is riding an economic boom.....however it (and all of Australia) is in a commodity driven environment. What will WA and the rest of Australia rely on when the energy and mineral resources dry up? I mean, when nothings left, or our Asian clients decide they no longer need what we have.
As far as I am aware their is no commercial export manufacturing in Australia. Should we rely on tourism? I'm interested in everyones thoughts Cheers LL |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by themerlin
(Post 5756812)
And what does the UK export now days?
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5756578)
But it seems OK to export and ship the ingredients for nuclear power all over the world to let others build nuclear plants. Afterall when a nuclear powerstation blows up it doesn't spread it's nuclear cloud around the world does it.
If Australia really was anti nuclear power it should stop exporting the stuff that makes your skin fall off and your hair fall out. Or were you talking about Ti-Tree (Tea Tree) Oil :D |
Re: The Future of Australia
Australia has large proven mineral reserves, I doubt we'll see them exhausted even in our grandchildrens lifetimes. As the mining boom continues, so the expertise in extraction grows. This expertise becomes a viable export to other countries starting to exploit their mineral wealth. The type of work changes from being industrial based to service based.
Of course, this makes the assumption there is still an external market, be it China, India or wherever. With regards nuclear power and comments on it being inherently dangerous: Modern station designs run with a negative temperature coefficient and a negative void coefficient which means that as a core heats up it becomes harder and harder to sustain a reaction, thus when left alone, the core tends towards a cool shut down. I saw a brief mention of Solar earlier. There have been significant developments in solar panels in the last 2 years, Nanosolar I think it was managed to develop thin-film, pliable photovoltaic cells. So, as long as there's a global market with no downturn I can't see Australia's economy suffering. My (rather large) 2c :) |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
(Post 5756458)
You're making these numbers up!
The Portuguese government is aiming for 100% renewable energy. I think they wouldn't be trying if the max they could achieve is 20%. Just because wind turbines (not my preferred option) have a problem providing baseload does not mean that baseload cannot be provided through renewable energy. Some of the generating capacity could be used to create hydrogen which could be used to generate the baseload (similar to LPG). Again it is not beyond the wit of man to come up with solutions. All it needs is people who can think outside the box. The nuke solution is wrong for so many reasons: firstly because it is highly polluting, secondly because it is economically unsound and thirdly because it is inherently dangerous. People may say that the spent fuel of the UK nuke industry only occupies a few football fields but they ignore the regular emissions into the atmosphere and the sea. The Irish sea is now the most radioactive sea in the world. Also what about all the irradiated pipework and plant. That's already filled more than a few football fields. The promised of cheap energy never materialised. This was just a marketing trick when the first nukes were built in the UK and did not take into account the cost of maintenance, reprocessing and decommissioning. 30 years of power and 100s (if not 1000s) of years of decommissioning. If you believe nuclear energy is cheap then you've been spruiked. The only way a government can get private enterprise to build a nuke is by offering free barrow loads of taxpayers' money. Chernobyl shows what happens when it all goes wrong. Oh but that was the USSR! 3 mile island shows what happens when it all goes wrong. And there but for the grace of god goes the UK. Nukes are not cheap, they're not quick, they're not environmentally friendly and they're not simple. It's just a big business solution (i.e. only good for big business) funded with taxpayers' money. Good luck to the Portuguese in their push for 100%........ |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Katsmajics other half !!!
(Post 5754083)
I would rather be in a desolated backwater like Australia than in a really fooked place like the way the UK is going.:thumbsup:
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by KLF
(Post 5757531)
:rolleyes:
I too before coming here would and could easily have written a post like that one, very easy to slag off the UK when everyone brainwashes each other into the falacy that the UK is crap and getting worse. It's only after you have experienced something else that you truely come to appreciate just what was good about home. I for one will never slag off any aspect of the UK again, and that includes the welsh or the close proximity to France. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5757626)
Notice I never replied to that answer, Spoken too much like someone that hasn't actually lived here in paradise yet.
I too before coming here would and could easily have written a post like that one, very easy to slag off the UK when everyone brainwashes each other into the falacy that the UK is crap and getting worse. It's only after you have experienced something else that you truely come to appreciate just what was good about home. I for one will never slag off any aspect of the UK again, and that includes the welsh or the close proximity to France. Life is so good in blighty yet you cant be arsed to move back, is this your story that you are sticking to, or is it the record you play thats sticking ? |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5757626)
Notice I never replied to that answer, Spoken too much like someone that hasn't actually lived here in paradise yet.
I too before coming here would and could easily have written a post like that one, very easy to slag off the UK when everyone brainwashes each other into the falacy that the UK is crap and getting worse. It's only after you have experienced something else that you truely come to appreciate just what was good about home. I for one will never slag off any aspect of the UK again, and that includes the welsh or the close proximity to France. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5757671)
Why on earth would you slag off the superior welsh, its the rest of the country that is shite.
Life is so good in blighty yet you cant be arsed to move back, is this your story that you are sticking to, or is it the record you play thats sticking ? |
Re: The Future of Australia
Australia should be wary of the Dutch effect.
It needs to invest abroad and lessen the strain on the AUD. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5757626)
Notice I never replied to that answer, Spoken too much like someone that hasn't actually lived here in paradise yet.
I too before coming here would and could easily have written a post like that one, very easy to slag off the UK when everyone brainwashes each other into the falacy that the UK is crap and getting worse. It's only after you have experienced something else that you truely come to appreciate just what was good about home. I for one will never slag off any aspect of the UK again, and that includes the welsh or the close proximity to France. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Nuclear power may be Clean but the Nuclear waste is not.
Until a safe way to dispose of nuclear waste is found, this sort of power should be put right on the back burner. Just before leaving the UK 11 years ago, I saw first hand how the government was dealing with obsolete nuclear submarines and their reactors. They were all tied up alongside in Rosyth dockyard. No one knew how to dispose of the reactors safetly. Ditching the waste in some third world country is not the answer. |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by KLF
(Post 5757679)
You moving back to Wales then?
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5757671)
Why on earth would you slag off the superior welsh, its the rest of the country that is shite.
Life is so good in blighty yet you cant be arsed to move back, is this your story that you are sticking to, or is it the record you play thats sticking ? |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Katsmajics other half !!!
(Post 5758764)
The grass aint always greener just a different shade i would like to have a look at that different shade if thats ok?
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Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5760315)
That's fine, but maybe you should slag the UK off slightly less though in the meanwhile as your going to look a bit foolish when you decide to return in a couple of years time or like me you have to stick it out here in a utopia that is sadly lacking.
When are you getting to Sydney Arkon? Sounds like you are in desperate need of that pint... S |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by arkon
(Post 5760308)
It's not a stuck record, I'm stuck here. Nothing I can do to go back. You don't know the whole of my situation that has me stuck here so you are'nt really qualified to comment or give such glib comments are you.
You cant use any excuse really since you live your life and noone else keeps you from that (even family if you are here for that reason). No money ? The British high commission would give you a ticket that youd have to pay back at some point. Why not try to enjoy your life mate, youll feel heaps better than you do at present. You mentioned to another poster that they shouldnt slag the uk off since they would be back there in a couple of years. By the same token, you shouldnt make out the Uk is so fantastic if you arent prepared to go back, you may just be eating your words if you actually DID move back. Is this your fear ? |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 5760369)
When are you getting to Sydney Arkon?
Sounds like you are in desperate need of that pint... S |
Re: The Future of Australia
Originally Posted by Luke I Amyofath
(Post 5760400)
Well mate, unless you are in Villawood or otherwise detained in Australia, there should be nothing that forces you to stay. I dont need to know your whole story since it wouldnt change my opinion that if you are truly as miserable here as you have been posting for quite some time, you could pack your bags and bugger off to blighty.
You cant use any excuse really since you live your life and noone else keeps you from that (even family if you are here for that reason). No money ? The British high commission would give you a ticket that youd have to pay back at some point. Why not try to enjoy your life mate, youll feel heaps better than you do at present. You mentioned to another poster that they shouldnt slag the uk off since they would be back there in a couple of years. By the same token, you shouldnt make out the Uk is so fantastic if you arent prepared to go back, you may just be eating your words if you actually DID move back. Is this your fear ? |
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