Turban Explorer

Indigenous Australians have greater issues than simply being poor. I agree they've assimilated into a dysfunctional hand to mouth underclass but they also are often stuck in isolated communities with no opportunities, face abuse and incest to a greater extent than white people, have no role models to look towards and have a long history of persecution. It's not positive discrimination simply down to ethnicity. It's because their segment of society is deemed to need more support.

sheene

Everything you say is true - but the key is - facing all that, what are the indigenous people going to do about it? We have non-white people arriving on these shores daily, who have been persecuted for years, have nothing, have been tortured and abused and face a mountain to climb. They get into a small boat, not knowing what is going to happen and make a leap of faith to try and improve the chances of themselves and their children - then we lock them up.

With the indigenous peoples, there seems a sense of inevitability to their plight, a resignation - not by us - but by them. Many seem to have given up on themselves, happy to revert to habits of the past. Abuse, alcoholism, domestic violence, crime - it is a very vicious and debilitating cycle which only they can break.

lesleys

When I graduated (physics and geophysics) it was still legal to refuse applications from women, or advertise for 'men only'. My official career advice was to go into teaching or management at M&S.

Things do change, eventually. At least people realise there is a problem now.

eddie007

I dont know what the solution is to the problem.... We have a relatively primative culture that has widely failed to assimalate (why should they ?) to 21st centuary living....

Not as in failed because its their fault.... How can you expect people to want to assimilate to a culture that did what white australia did to them in the very recent past....

These are issues that wont be solved by throwing money at them.... That will only make things worse.... They have to be resolved WITH the community and without hard cash.... They have to be part of the resolution and responsible for deciding whats done... Otherwise its just white man imposing his will on them again...

Sure start in the uk is a good model, though whether it would actually translate between cultures I dont know.....

sheene

And you think those prejudices don't exist because the advert doesn't say anything? I found out last year, from someone 'in the know' that I would have got a job interviewed for, but they needed a woman to balance the Senior Team - it would have saved a lot of effort and trouble if they could have stated that in the advert. 'Who you know' also has repercussions far beyond adspeak.

lesleys

Of course they exist

Just pointing out that legal discrimination on a wide scale is fairly recent history, and things can improve but it WILL take time.

Jon77

Indeed, many companies have a female preference policy at the moment. Didn't Harriet Harman introduce a policy in the UK where by female only job short-listing should be generated and male applicants not accepted or if a male did apply he would be immediately rejected? There is pressure on many companies to employ females rather than males these days. Personally I think it should be the best person for the job and be open to all.

Having said that there are still of course many areas where lack of equality for women in the work place needs to be addressed, pay and pensions for example.

sheene

My fear is that the only way it would ever happen, is if humans relinquished their stranglehold on being human.

Japonica

Hmm...I'd add something but I come from a primitive culture and can't seem to use a computer...

Is it possible to not refer to someone as "primitive" or "advanced" based on superficial notions of superiority? As I said before, when I'm lost in the bush with no food or water, I'll be asking the "primitives" for help first.

And I just want to add, as someone who is Aboriginal (albeit the Canadian variety) that it is possible for things to turn around. Yes, we still have the poverty, substance abuse problems, discrimination, you name it but from my perspective, we're about 20+ years ahead in many regards to where Australia is today. Mabo was what...1992. Calder was 1973 in Canada. So, we've had a twenty year plus head start on land claims, negotiations, self determination...Many of the Aboriginal communities here today look like the worst Canadian ones of the 1960s. I've worked in the not-for-profit Aboriginal economic development sector (in a support and advisory organization) and I could see the changes in communities who took it upon themselves to move from stasis and dysfunction to gradually gaining more control over their own affairs, start their own economic development ventures, turn a profit, and in turn invest back into the community. And there are so many talented, capable people out there who have the ability and capacity to turn things around. But it's not easy, it's not a quick fix. And yes, throwing money at the issue and using outsiders to determine what needs to be done doesn't solve any problems.

But the initial stages are the most difficult and the most fraught with failure. I have seen the huge change in communities but it takes commitment, perseverance, vision, dedication as well as a semi-functional, healthy community who is willing to take the first steps. Without this, the outlook is pretty bleak.

Japonica

Yeah, I imagine there's probably more than a few women out there who wouldn't bat an eye if they were vying for a position that they knew had preferential hiring practices in place, yet would complain about positions reserved for Aboriginal applicants.

I had a boss, old school and in his 60s, who said that 1) there was no point in a woman having any education higher than secondary school (it was a "waste") and 2) in a contest for a job vacancy, the position should always go to the man. Now, thankfully, time (and societal attitudes) have progressed somewhat but imagine if they hadn't.

For the record, I'm talking about candidates with similar qualifications and experience. It doesn't do anyone any favors to hire an individual just because of their sex or ethnicity who is woefully unqualified and incapable of performing the occupation.

sheene

And it must hurt to see that bleakness.

Whilst in the UK, much to my detriment, I always had a sense of 'us and them'. It never manifested itself in any way along the racism thread, it was just a sense of divided community. Since moving away, the change in perspective has allowed me to see the UK as whole. I wish the warring viewpoints in Australia could see that same whole, that they are all Australian. A change of perspective needed?

Japonica

I think so, but again, I don't see that happening overnight soon either. I find it frustrating when an entire segment of the population gets written off...I know Aboriginal folks here, professionals, working in the government or for the various representative organizations who are not doing anything extraordinary except going about the daily grind and also, in many instances, trying to improve certain facets of the lives of their extended families and communities.

The media doesn't help either. Back in Canada, reserve shootings would make front page news. Native gangs, drug and turf wars...no one really wants to hear about so and so Indian band opened a new golf course, or this settlement re-invested their profit from their tourism venture into a water treatment plant and they trained their own people to run it and have generated even more jobs. Nah, not good press.

I've spoken to some Aussies here who are working in many of the northern communities (including my eye surgeon who says it's a good dose of reality for him for when he feels his ego is starting to spiral to be talked down to and chewed out by some of his Aboriginal patients--"who do you think you are, anyway?") and these individuals generally have a good grasp of the situation. They don't have rose tinted specs, they can see it's complex, exceedingly difficult, and has no simple or easy fixes, but at the same time, they don't throw their hands up in despair and think there's nothing to be done, those people are beyond help, or why bother. At the center of their perspective seems to be a willingness to keep working at things, making a small difference if possible where they can, and balancing realism, optimism, and pragmatism.

As for the change in perspective, I think a lot of it has to do with a willingness to listen and continued dialogue. I've also met people over here who have pretty firm negative opinions on Aboriginal peoples and will not listen to anything that contradicts their views. Might that change? Who knows.