David Hicks - should he keep book proceeds?
#46









Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555

Those that support Hicks support a legal system that is fair, not based on torture and one that has a respectable due process. Not even Howard's government supported what happened and constantly pushed for the military commission to proceed. Brievik supporters are the likes of the EDL and the fringes of the tea party. Brievik will get Norways legal process. Hicks got years of limbo. Brievik supporters threaten violence and probably ansl insertion of swords.
#47
There is a little difference there. Hicks took himself off to a country in support of his beliefs to serve and support radical Islam.
He never went on a killing spree on Australian soil. Brievik would have been similar if he was alive in the time of Nazi Germany and had gone there to follow his convictions.
He never went on a killing spree on Australian soil. Brievik would have been similar if he was alive in the time of Nazi Germany and had gone there to follow his convictions.
#48
Those that support Hicks support a legal system that is fair, not based on torture and one that has a respectable due process. Not even Howard's government supported what happened and constantly pushed for the military commission to proceed. Brievik supporters are the likes of the EDL and the fringes of the tea party. Brievik will get Norways legal process. Hicks got years of limbo. Brievik supporters threaten violence and probably ansl insertion of swords.
If you re found fighting on battlefield you re one of two things: a Legal or illegal combatant.
If you re illegal - e.g. spy or terrorist, you can face the death penalty.
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
He could have stuck with being a Prisoner of War, and still been in G Bay!
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
#49
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#50









Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555

Where was he found? What did he plead guilty to? A what point during his imprisonment was he convicted?
People who helped Hicks did so after the chance of a legitimate process happened. To say those supporting Hicks getting a fair trial also supported terror is an illogical jump.
A major problem was that the US legal system saw the process as unfair and Bush had to change the law retrospectively. The US screwed it right up and after 5 years dropped a charge.
A decent legal system is one of many things that distinguish our democracies from the systems the terrorists want.
People who helped Hicks did so after the chance of a legitimate process happened. To say those supporting Hicks getting a fair trial also supported terror is an illogical jump.
A major problem was that the US legal system saw the process as unfair and Bush had to change the law retrospectively. The US screwed it right up and after 5 years dropped a charge.
A decent legal system is one of many things that distinguish our democracies from the systems the terrorists want.
Im not sure if you fully understand the Hicks dilemma, so let me go over it.
If you re found fighting on battlefield you re one of two things: a Legal or illegal combatant.
If you re illegal - e.g. spy or terrorist, you can face the death penalty.
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
He could have stuck with being a Prisoner of War, and still been in G Bay!
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
If you re found fighting on battlefield you re one of two things: a Legal or illegal combatant.
If you re illegal - e.g. spy or terrorist, you can face the death penalty.
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
He could have stuck with being a Prisoner of War, and still been in G Bay!
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
#51
Im not sure if you fully understand the Hicks dilemma, so let me go over it.
If you re found fighting on battlefield you re one of two things: a Legal or illegal combatant.
If you re illegal - e.g. spy or terrorist, you can face the death penalty.
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
He could have stuck with being a Prisoner of War, and still been in G Bay!
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
If you re found fighting on battlefield you re one of two things: a Legal or illegal combatant.
If you re illegal - e.g. spy or terrorist, you can face the death penalty.
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
He could have stuck with being a Prisoner of War, and still been in G Bay!
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
Your explanation works for a war between opposing armies, it fails when a nation is invaded & bombed into peaceful harmonious happy ever afterwards.
You forget the fact that Hicks didn't confess anything of his own free will, he was repeatedly tortured until he confessed. A confession under duress is worthless. A much better way would have been to tie him to a chair & throw him in a river if he floated he'd have been a terrorist..........................
Unfortunately your first post summed you up on this thread so why I'm bothering is anyone's guess, boredom I expect
#52
If you are a legal combatant, you are held until the cessation of hostilities, because thats how prisoners of war are treated.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
So - was Hicks legal or illegal? Should he still be locked away as a prisoner of war, or shot for being a spy or terrorist. HE picked the LATTER. He pleaded guilty to being an illegal combatant, and served a jail sentence for it.
The legal system that covers those found fighting on a battlefield is fair and effective. The problem is most people don't understand how it works.
Problem is, immediately that happens the trial falls apart due to the torture and treatment. He's released because no legal trial is possible. In addition it is required that ALL those involved in the torture go on trial.
If he was a soldier, then no, you don't get to shoot him. You have to treat him as a prisoner of war, and as such you STILL have to arrest and charge those guilty of torturing him.
So no, no legal trial took place. You seem not to grasp why the bad guy in this switched from David Hicks to those who mistreated him. The crimes committed by those who kidnapped him were worse than those he trained to carry out. And the guilty still walk free.
#53
Account Closed










Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188

If he wasn't a soldier, he gets a proper trial in a proper jurisdiction involved. Not a military tribunal.
Problem is, immediately that happens the trial falls apart due to the torture and treatment. He's released because no legal trial is possible. In addition it is required that ALL those involved in the torture go on trial.
If he was a soldier, then no, you don't get to shoot him. You have to treat him as a prisoner of war, and as such you STILL have to arrest and charge those guilty of torturing him.
So no, no legal trial took place. You seem not to grasp why the bad guy in this switched from David Hicks to those who mistreated him. The crimes committed by those who kidnapped him were worse than those he trained to carry out. And the guilty still walk free.
Problem is, immediately that happens the trial falls apart due to the torture and treatment. He's released because no legal trial is possible. In addition it is required that ALL those involved in the torture go on trial.
If he was a soldier, then no, you don't get to shoot him. You have to treat him as a prisoner of war, and as such you STILL have to arrest and charge those guilty of torturing him.
So no, no legal trial took place. You seem not to grasp why the bad guy in this switched from David Hicks to those who mistreated him. The crimes committed by those who kidnapped him were worse than those he trained to carry out. And the guilty still walk free.
#54









Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555

Did they invade or join the Northern Alliance?
What was Hicks fighting for and against?
What was Hicks fighting for and against?
Explain then how, when your one of the worlds superpowers, that you can simply invade a country & start waging war upon it's people & not expect the man in the street to fight back? Hicks at least went to fight for something he believed in, unlike the majority of the U.S forces that are out there who are fighting a war against what Islam? Terrorism? Anyone with a kaffiyah on their head?
Your explanation works for a war between opposing armies, it fails when a nation is invaded & bombed into peaceful harmonious happy ever afterwards.
You forget the fact that Hicks didn't confess anything of his own free will, he was repeatedly tortured until he confessed. A confession under duress is worthless. A much better way would have been to tie him to a chair & throw him in a river if he floated he'd have been a terrorist..........................
Unfortunately your first post summed you up on this thread so why I'm bothering is anyone's guess, boredom I expect
Your explanation works for a war between opposing armies, it fails when a nation is invaded & bombed into peaceful harmonious happy ever afterwards.
You forget the fact that Hicks didn't confess anything of his own free will, he was repeatedly tortured until he confessed. A confession under duress is worthless. A much better way would have been to tie him to a chair & throw him in a river if he floated he'd have been a terrorist..........................
Unfortunately your first post summed you up on this thread so why I'm bothering is anyone's guess, boredom I expect

#57
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,830
From: Perth











Explain then how, when your one of the worlds superpowers, that you can simply invade a country & start waging war upon it's people & not expect the man in the street to fight back? Hicks at least went to fight for something he believed in, unlike the majority of the U.S forces that are out there who are fighting a war against what Islam? Terrorism? Anyone with a kaffiyah on their head?
Your explanation works for a war between opposing armies, it fails when a nation is invaded & bombed into peaceful harmonious happy ever afterwards.
You forget the fact that Hicks didn't confess anything of his own free will, he was repeatedly tortured until he confessed. A confession under duress is worthless. A much better way would have been to tie him to a chair & throw him in a river if he floated he'd have been a terrorist..........................
Unfortunately your first post summed you up on this thread so why I'm bothering is anyone's guess, boredom I expect
Your explanation works for a war between opposing armies, it fails when a nation is invaded & bombed into peaceful harmonious happy ever afterwards.
You forget the fact that Hicks didn't confess anything of his own free will, he was repeatedly tortured until he confessed. A confession under duress is worthless. A much better way would have been to tie him to a chair & throw him in a river if he floated he'd have been a terrorist..........................
Unfortunately your first post summed you up on this thread so why I'm bothering is anyone's guess, boredom I expect

These guys were certainly terrorists in the eyes of the Soviets.......
#58
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,830
From: Perth











#60
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Joined: Aug 2002
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No, some of them (leaders of anyway) are Uni educated - such as Abdullah Abdullah. He's more intelligent than most/all on this site!




