old.sparkles

It does on an iphone. Safety feature of iPhone is bluetooth turns off when phone locked unless you have paired to device.

Did a test at home. Both phones have bluetooth on. My phone will find my watch only when other phone is locked. Other phone is not paired to either and detects nothing.

Android works differently so will still poll bluetooth when phone locked.

Beoz

Only when it's locked? That's a good thing right?

I don't think it's pairing with other users. Its giving it a digital message.

old.sparkles

But it can't when locked.

Someone I know with an iPhone tried but uninstalled the app after constantly getting notifications to turn the bluetooth back on

Beoz

Its looking at all your apps you have open and shutting systems down. Shut down all your other apps and leave the COVIDSafe app open when you lock it.

Apple said to be providing a fix for this crap in a couple of weeks.

Better still, follow the crowd and leave Apple for good.

abner

Some arbitrarily round number picked to define the infective contact model for the app.

A shorter interval would be far less "expensive" in terms of both communicative and computational effort, for the cooperating phones.

abner

And two months on, it's still useless...

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...27-p556s7.html

Beoz

The testing data, released to the Senate's select committee on COVID-19, shows when an iPhone is locked there remain issues with the app detecting another nearby iPhone user. Only 25 to 50 per cent of the time did it work on May 26 in locked iPhone-to-iPhone testing.

And people still subscribe to backward Apple technology. Hats off to Apple. Its one hell of a marketing machine.

abner

Sure, blame Apple. Not really a fan of Apple here either, but your disdain is misplaced, in terms of the COVIDSafe app.

The app was a rush job, not well-suited to the prevalent population of smart-phones, and with a questionable infection-contact model embedded within the app's operational logic.

And now that better options are emerging from the relevant smart-phone OS vendors, the Australian government finds itself too far invested to gracefully change course.

Beoz

Its first release was a rush job. Would you have preferred they did the typical year of development, QA, testing, before release? Being to far vested is where you are totally incorrect. The beauty of software is that you can push an update anytime you like, so if Apple sort their rubbish out, COVIDSafe can push an update - very simple.

abner

Having been a software product manager in a previous life, I wouldn't have wanted to waste the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get public buy-in, for a program launch supported by a stellar cast of senior politicians, traditional media personalities, social media personalities, in a cause supported by all of the above plus the public at large, all to launch a ***DUD*** app.

An app that, to date, hasn't come up with a single additional contact for a COVID-19 infected person, that wasn't already identified by established contact-tracing methodology.

That's a level of failure that the app will never come back from, in terms of public adoption, actual usage, and trust, no matter how many more functional subsequent updates may be pushed through.

Beoz

Well firstly, that's not true. The app has found contacts of virus carriers in Melbourne, but these people were also found through normal tracing methods. Double win.

I think you need to take a step back and understand the purpose of the app

The purpose of the app was to help in the contact tracing part. It was one of many tools contact tracers have available. It was never designed to remove contact tracers nor their methods of tracing contacts. It was another weapon to add to the arsenal.

It also relies on a number of criteria. It works best in volume. It doesn't mean it doesn't work without volume, lack of volume just reduces the opportunity to use the data in a tracking exercise.

Volume also means people with COVID. Since its launch until very recently, there has been very few COVID cases in Australia. How can you get results without people with COVID? Simple - you can't.

Still the numbers are very low in Australia. A hundred odd people in Melbourne per day are tiny numbers comparatively. And its picked a few up along side traditional methods. So the reality the app has worked. Could it be better ..... sure .... but it relies on naysayers like yourself to participate. Go and get yourself a better phone and get on the app. This is not a development problem. Its a YOU problem.

abner

It's neither. It's a violently premature program launch problem.

The government was desperate for a "we're doing something and you can all join in" type of win, so they went waaay too early with an app that wasn't ready, based on an infective contact model for the virus which wasn't proven, and was far too computationally intensive for a large portion of the smartphones actually in current use by the general public, whether Apple or Android.

And as you have pointed out, there wasn't much case data for the app to work with when launched, so there was absolutely no need to launch COVID-Safe so prematurely.

Meanwhile, Apple and Google have been readying what are likely far more robust (and suited-to-platform) contact-tracing apps, but the government is far too wedded to COVID-Safe to change horses now.

They've blown their wad already, and will have a hard time convincing the public that the next time will be so much better...

Better than a Pixel 4XL? What do you suggest?

Beoz

You are not really clear what your expectation of the app was supposed to do. Mine is pretty clear. Its there to assist in the contact tracing. If you get COVID, you will receive a call from a contact tracer, quizzing you on where you were and who you had close contact with. Humans are not great at remembering each person they had close contact with, or if you are under the armpit of a fellow commuter on a train, you won't even know them. If you have played your part as a responsible citizen, you will have the app. The armpit owner may also have the app, if so great, if its a 15 minute armpit session, the tracers can find that person and advise testing and isolation. If not, then that's one we lose, but its a numbers game, best to focus on the one the tracers can get.

Melbourne has been using the app. The CMO confirms as much but also says that the app has been used in conjunction with other methods of tracing. What are you expecting? All the other methods are put to bed and we rely solely on the data from an app? Get real.

If we take your theory, we could be like the Baroness. "Baroness Harding made it clear that she was not going to be hurried just because our neighbours were releasing apps, telling the committee "it's not something that we think that anyone in the world has got working to a high enough standard yet". That's nice Baroness, lets wait, just like the UK did in locking down, and look how well that worked out.

Or you could take the view of Germany, Switzerland and Ireland. "Germany has celebrated the fact that in three weeks its app has been downloaded by 15 million people out of a population of 83 million. But there is little or no information about whether it is performing well in its core mission of contact tracing. Then again, countries like Germany, Ireland and Switzerland have taken the view that an app does not have to be technically perfect, and that if there is any chance of it making even a small contribution to the battle against the virus, it's worth a go."

Again, the problem with its effectiveness is you, because you refuse to be a contributing citizen. You live in Melbourne right?

carcajou

I downloaded the app some time ago. My expectation was that if I had been in contact with someone who tested positive, I would get buzzed or called, and I would know to go into self-isolation and get tested.

It hasn't gone off because Western Australia hasn't had a community case in about 3 months and my particular region hasn't had one in about 4.

Am I supposed to be disappointed and upset that I haven't been in contact with COVID patients and so the app isn't buzzing me?

Beoz

The app is not about you. This pandemic is not about you. It won't buzz you. If you get COVID the authorities will ask to retrieve your data so they can isolate everyone else and stop them infecting everyone else. It's big picture. Not about you.