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Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Old Nov 18th 2020, 1:24 am
  #1186  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Yep, yet more Kung Flu overreaction - but a malleable, cowed and compliant population are enabling it - aided by other peoples money thrown at us
Great summary. Isn't that the truth. Its just so wrong for the insular jurisdictions to shut it down knowing full well those who stay open will pay for it.

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
I'm doing 3 days a week at home, which I like, but there is talk of it becoming 5 days - which I don't. If we never have to go into the office then 'we' could just as well be in Manila or London or Auckland
Are you saying that they might think, why do we need expensive local?
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Old Nov 18th 2020, 3:57 am
  #1187  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Are you saying that they might think, why do we need expensive local?
Yes. I know that there are skillsets involved that are not easily replicated and that, in our industry at least, offshoring has not had a great track record and the practice has not really grown in recent years, but you have to understand that businesses, by and large, are run by non-jobs, aka accountants. Now, these guys don't really get productivity, technical difficulties and deadlines, just saving dollars. And it's not like they would have to go to the 3rd world either. People in the UK, NZ, the US, who do what I do generally earn less - sometimes a lot less - and some would even be prepared to work the unsocial hours that would result from time zone differences if it fitted in with their lifestyles. Never having to go into the office is the beginning of a slippery slope IMO, one that I don't want to go down. Also, a lot of companies are front and centre with the Chinese 19 overreaction and are implementing all this bullshit with zeal - and a cherry on top. Having people working from home fits in perfectly with this overreaction - and many are also looking at reducing costs - ie expensive CBD office blocks. (Nanny) State government policy from the likes of Andrews and McGowan is encouraging them too
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Old Nov 20th 2020, 11:22 pm
  #1188  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Yes. I know that there are skillsets involved that are not easily replicated and that, in our industry at least, offshoring has not had a great track record and the practice has not really grown in recent years, but you have to understand that businesses, by and large, are run by non-jobs, aka accountants. Now, these guys don't really get productivity, technical difficulties and deadlines, just saving dollars. And it's not like they would have to go to the 3rd world either. People in the UK, NZ, the US, who do what I do generally earn less - sometimes a lot less - and some would even be prepared to work the unsocial hours that would result from time zone differences if it fitted in with their lifestyles. Never having to go into the office is the beginning of a slippery slope IMO, one that I don't want to go down. Also, a lot of companies are front and centre with the Chinese 19 overreaction and are implementing all this bullshit with zeal - and a cherry on top. Having people working from home fits in perfectly with this overreaction - and many are also looking at reducing costs - ie expensive CBD office blocks. (Nanny) State government policy from the likes of Andrews and McGowan is encouraging them too
Its a good point. I see a massively growing Indian workforce in my company with Australia remaining steady. I have heard management actually say when an Australian leaves "I can get 3 Indians for that cost". It then becomes a repeated argument. I have actually given up playing nice on that front and if I get labelled racist I really don't care.

The bottom line is, if you hire 3 Indians, the chances are 1 out of the 3 are any good. And of that one good Indian, he or she will leave for a dollar more an hour.

Pre COVID our Indians were never allowed to work from home due to lack of trust from Indian management. Being 5 or 6 hours behind it was generally accepted they would be in the office around 3 or 4pm Sydney time. Depending on train issues, how many uncovered sewer holes they fell down, if they got hit by a moped on the way to work. Now they are working from home they don't appear online until about 6pm Sydney time. So they lack of trust is warranted. And that's a productivity issue right there. I am starting to rock the boat with this as I am having to move my hours to compensate for lazy arse Indians.

But you are right, upper management typically can't look deeper into productivity levels and go straight for the spreadsheet and it takes repeated Indian failures before they realise keeping a balance across the world is a wise choice.

I always did plenty of work from home pre-COVID. The main change for me is I am no longer on aeroplanes which is awesome.

It's really going to be interesting where this takes the business airline travel industry and CBD commercial real estate.

As you say, reducing cost is cherry on top. I can't see business airline travel and CBD real estate returning to pre COVID levels. Where this takes offshoring with all its productivity issues remains to be seen.
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Old Nov 21st 2020, 4:57 am
  #1189  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
If we never have to go into the office then 'we' could just as well be in Manila or London or Auckland
Oh dear, unbridled capitalism actually sucks...if one is on the receiving end of the 'accountants'.


Welcome to the wider world of Australian white-collar "rationalisation", in any of several industries.

Last edited by abner; Nov 21st 2020 at 6:20 am.
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Old Nov 22nd 2020, 5:34 am
  #1190  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Oh dear, unbridled capitalism actually sucks...if one is on the receiving end of the 'accountants'.


Welcome to the wider world of Australian white-collar "rationalisation", in any of several industries.

Not an Australian thing at all as it would happen all over the Western world - one of the reasons Donald Trump was elected for instance

Fortunately, I have skills that that can easily be transferred into areas where offshoring is virtually impossible. It would not be my preferred option but I'd still be able to earn a decent crust
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Old Nov 22nd 2020, 7:39 am
  #1191  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

I strongly suspect that once this covid pandemic is over, more than one corporation will undertake studies into how it was managed throughout and if you're astute you'll already be positioning your consultancy to pick up this business.
Chief among those who'll be at the sharp end will be those much hated bean counters. They'll be sprouting spreadsheets from all of their orifices indicating where beans can be saved and how that weed was found to be no longer needed and how that flower can be snipped at the root.
Working from home no doubt has been a boon for many, but there's always this niggle, this suspicion from those paying your wages that doing your job, or at least claiming to do your job, from a comfy chair doesn't somehow sit easy in the bean counting world.
My advice is to spend the next few months forgetting how comfortable working from home can be and concentrating on making yourself indispensible because I'm sure that guy who used to sit along the corridor is doing just that.
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Old Nov 22nd 2020, 9:35 pm
  #1192  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I strongly suspect that once this covid pandemic is over, more than one corporation will undertake studies into how it was managed throughout and if you're astute you'll already be positioning your consultancy to pick up this business.
Chief among those who'll be at the sharp end will be those much hated bean counters. They'll be sprouting spreadsheets from all of their orifices indicating where beans can be saved and how that weed was found to be no longer needed and how that flower can be snipped at the root.
Working from home no doubt has been a boon for many, but there's always this niggle, this suspicion from those paying your wages that doing your job, or at least claiming to do your job, from a comfy chair doesn't somehow sit easy in the bean counting world.
My advice is to spend the next few months forgetting how comfortable working from home can be and concentrating on making yourself indispensible because I'm sure that guy who used to sit along the corridor is doing just that.
Sadly bean counters know how to pull a spreadsheet together but rarely do they understand the requirements that make a company profitable. Especially in fields like engineering, construction and retail.

However offshoring is certainly another item to add to the list in this article here.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/slee...20-p56gho.html
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Old Nov 23rd 2020, 7:00 am
  #1193  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post

Not an Australian thing at all as it would happen all over the Western world - one of the reasons Donald Trump was elected for instance

Fortunately, I have skills that that can easily be transferred into areas where offshoring is virtually impossible. It would not be my preferred option but I'd still be able to earn a decent crust
Been there, already done that.

And I can see you're a smart, experienced cookie, Amazulu.

But there was just something about the phrase of yours that I quoted ("If we never have to go into the office then 'we' could just as well be in Manila or London or Auckland") that came across like a deer suddenly realising that he was in the headlights of oncoming car.
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Old Nov 23rd 2020, 10:51 am
  #1194  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Been there, already done that.

And I can see you're a smart, experienced cookie, Amazulu.

But there was just something about the phrase of yours that I quoted ("If we never have to go into the office then 'we' could just as well be in Manila or London or Auckland") that came across like a deer suddenly realising that he was in the headlights of oncoming car.
This offshoring lark has been around in my field of work since the mid-90's at least - and yet here we are in 2020, all still working and earning a decent crust. In one way, it forces you to keep upgrading your skills to stay ahead - something that I don't have a problem with and actually enjoy. One of the biggest advantages we have is that project design engineering is not easy - it never has been and it never will be. It's hard graft. Offshoring kind of works when you're doing vanilla, generic work but when you have to deal with the complexities and problems that inevitably arise, it falls flat on its ass - and the Asian countries that we offshore to are hopeless at dealing with problems, disagreements, big issues - they are very much of a yes sir, no sir bent - and that doesn't work

The other thing is that although you could try and design a mine offshore, you sure as shit can't build it offshore!
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Old Nov 23rd 2020, 9:09 pm
  #1195  
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Default Re: Coronavirus - how's everyone doing?

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
- and the Asian countries that we offshore to are hopeless at dealing with problems, disagreements, big issues - they are very much of a yes sir, no sir bent - and that doesn't work
It doesn't work. But spreadsheet management keep trying. They have been trying since the 90's. Spreadsheets don't show yes sir attitudes, rope learning mentality, problem solving disabilities. It shows a cheap number on a spreadsheet.

Then when that spreadsheet manager gets fired or moves on because they managed by spreadsheet, the next up start tries it again.
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