Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
#1366
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
then seeing a tax cut for those on $38,000 doesn't change that. I'm fairly certain that it doesn't incentivise you to try and reach that level, because the higher income itself is incentive enough. In case you think that no-one earns as low as $18,000 - that would be 20 hours a week in a minimum wage job. Of course, the 2.4% increase in the minimum wage would see that rise to nearly 18,500 from 1st July, but still not enough to benefit from tax cuts because it's not enough to pay tax.
Yes there are loans available but as your own info shows, this is most often available for higher courses, and you still need to find the funds for the lower courses enabling you to access those.
I don't care if you think 'casual workers' and 'week to week' sound like sound bites because for the people I work with it is the reality. Casuals are only guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours work if they start a shift - if they are not rostered, or they get cancelled before the shift begins, they get nothing. Company tax cuts will not guarantee them permanent positions - not sure if anything will, but maybe a cash incentive would or covering a new employees super for the first year (I don't know - not my area of expertise).
I don't care if you think 'casual workers' and 'week to week' sound like sound bites because for the people I work with it is the reality. Casuals are only guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours work if they start a shift - if they are not rostered, or they get cancelled before the shift begins, they get nothing. Company tax cuts will not guarantee them permanent positions - not sure if anything will, but maybe a cash incentive would or covering a new employees super for the first year (I don't know - not my area of expertise).
Reducing company tax is not solely about increasing full time positions though that might be a nice by product. Its about increasing investment into Australia, which does provide jobs, pays tax, and adds money to the economy. Without the big picture in place there is no picture for the part time worker who wishes to work full time.
#1367
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
.............. Or you live in Adelaide with not much going for it or you are seeing the increasing effect of part time working women entering the workforce or you like to work a few hours because its flexible or ............... lots of reasons for an increase in part time work numbers. And if you are trying to change that, somehow get more full time people in jobs, increasing corporate tax is hardly going to help, and if anything, reducing it is the only way to go. But we are only talking part time workers here and the tiny amount of those who feel they are underemployed.
Exactly - you don't pay tax (or a token gesture amount of $57.00) on $18,500. Therefore if you don't contribute, you aren't part of this scheme. I don't see the issue? If you don't pay tax how can you be part of a scheme which reduces tax? However it sounds to me like you are trying to argue the case for penalising the wealthy and rewarding the poor. And that's fine, but in my view everyone should be treated equally with a lean towards rewarding those who put the most in because quite simply, that's fair.
Correct no guarantee, however company tax increases would harm businesses and hurt the people. Tax cuts will bolster business and they are the employers of people.
Reducing company tax is not solely about increasing full time positions though that might be a nice by product. Its about increasing investment into Australia, which does provide jobs, pays tax, and adds money to the economy. Without the big picture in place there is no picture for the part time worker who wishes to work full time.
Exactly - you don't pay tax (or a token gesture amount of $57.00) on $18,500. Therefore if you don't contribute, you aren't part of this scheme. I don't see the issue? If you don't pay tax how can you be part of a scheme which reduces tax? However it sounds to me like you are trying to argue the case for penalising the wealthy and rewarding the poor. And that's fine, but in my view everyone should be treated equally with a lean towards rewarding those who put the most in because quite simply, that's fair.
Correct no guarantee, however company tax increases would harm businesses and hurt the people. Tax cuts will bolster business and they are the employers of people.
Reducing company tax is not solely about increasing full time positions though that might be a nice by product. Its about increasing investment into Australia, which does provide jobs, pays tax, and adds money to the economy. Without the big picture in place there is no picture for the part time worker who wishes to work full time.
Yes, perhaps living in Adelaide is a reason for high levels of casual and part time work - I've no idea but the argument is not part time work through choice - it's because that's all that is available and introducing tax cuts does not help this.
I'm not arguing penalising the rich to give to the poor - I was arguing lets not have tax cuts now but find ways to help those on the lower end of the scale move into higher paid jobs, and open up the lower paid to people not yet on the job ladder. Investing in education benefits all, be that TAFE, Uni or apprenticeships. The long term net affect would be that we can reduce welfare pay outs, and increase standards of living - and then look at tax cuts.
And yes Garry. if everyone trains in an occupation that is already oversubscribed, it may have a negative impact on wage growth - so lets target those occupations we know need more workers.
PS - please don't be sexist. Part time workers are from both genders for what ever reason
#1368
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Because one leads into the next. You want to know how reducing income taxes helps those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ? It's not directly designed to help that and no apology should be made for that. However its designed to help people on circa $38,000 and as I said, $500 odd per year is not to be sniffed at. The other tax break elephant in the room is the corporate tax cuts which can help those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ?
I bet there are people who want to work part time or casual. I bet there are people who want more hours. What do you expect the government to do here? Perhaps an idea is along the lines of the corporate tax cuts. You receive a corporate tax cut if you employ x number of worker full time.
Well that's an option I guess, but people on low incomes, welfare, seeking more hours, seeking training, is not a new thing. Governments have had processes in place for years to help here. I guess you need to dive down into these processes and work towards improving them. I bet there a loads of civil servants already in these areas trying to improve the system. You could also say the same for health. Should everyone get a tax cut when there is still room for improvement in the health system. What about infrastructure?
Known fact. From the early 90's as more and more women entered the workforce rather than being stay at home mums/wives, the amount of part time and casual employment increased.
Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
I'm not arguing penalising the rich to give to the poor - I was arguing lets not have tax cuts now but find ways to help those on the lower end of the scale move into higher paid jobs, and open up the lower paid to people not yet on the job ladder. Investing in education benefits all, be that TAFE, Uni or apprenticeships. The long term net affect would be that we can reduce welfare pay outs, and increase standards of living - and then look at tax cuts.
And yes Garry. if everyone trains in an occupation that is already oversubscribed, it may have a negative impact on wage growth - so lets target those occupations we know need more workers.
PS - please don't be sexist. Part time workers are from both genders for what ever reason
PS - please don't be sexist. Part time workers are from both genders for what ever reason
Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
#1369
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Because one leads into the next. You want to know how reducing income taxes helps those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ? It's not directly designed to help that and no apology should be made for that. However its designed to help people on circa $38,000 and as I said, $500 odd per year is not to be sniffed at. The other tax break elephant in the room is the corporate tax cuts which can help those who pay no tax or want more hours and can't get them or helps fund training or ........ ?
I bet there are people who want to work part time or casual. I bet there are people who want more hours. What do you expect the government to do here? Perhaps an idea is along the lines of the corporate tax cuts. You receive a corporate tax cut if you employ x number of worker full time.
Well that's an option I guess, but people on low incomes, welfare, seeking more hours, seeking training, is not a new thing. Governments have had processes in place for years to help here. I guess you need to dive down into these processes and work towards improving them. I bet there a loads of civil servants already in these areas trying to improve the system. You could also say the same for health. Should everyone get a tax cut when there is still room for improvement in the health system. What about infrastructure?
Known fact. From the early 90's as more and more women entered the workforce rather than being stay at home mums/wives, the amount of part time and casual employment increased.
Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
I bet there are people who want to work part time or casual. I bet there are people who want more hours. What do you expect the government to do here? Perhaps an idea is along the lines of the corporate tax cuts. You receive a corporate tax cut if you employ x number of worker full time.
Well that's an option I guess, but people on low incomes, welfare, seeking more hours, seeking training, is not a new thing. Governments have had processes in place for years to help here. I guess you need to dive down into these processes and work towards improving them. I bet there a loads of civil servants already in these areas trying to improve the system. You could also say the same for health. Should everyone get a tax cut when there is still room for improvement in the health system. What about infrastructure?
Known fact. From the early 90's as more and more women entered the workforce rather than being stay at home mums/wives, the amount of part time and casual employment increased.
Not sure how that is sexist, its a fact.
Not funding personal income tax cuts does not lead to increased company tax??? Not funding personal income tax cuts means that budgetary surplus can fund education, healthcare, infrastructure - or pay down the national debt quicker but I would prefer the former. I'd be happy to see tax cuts for the lower end as they are already doing it tough but I'm quite happy to forgo mine if it can be invested in one of those options that will grow the economy. And you are right, for the lower earners - $500 pa is not to be sniffed at - but it's not enough to pay for training, because on that level of income you probably can't afford the debt (if you can get loans in the first place). I also understand that tax cuts do not help those who do not pay tax, and that's partly the issue - let's help those who need it most.
Yes company tax cuts might do that too - and if that tax cut was linked to increased workforce I'd be happy with that. But the current processes are not working.
There is only one section of town that sounds me, me, me and it's not the lower end.
#1370
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Personally I don't think we need a 'training system' I think we need a system for people to train themselves across a wide range of activities, in an quick agile fashion. Bottom up vs top down.
#1371
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
I'd be happy to see tax cuts for the lower end as they are already doing it tough but I'm quite happy to forgo mine if it can be invested in one of those options that will grow the economy. And you are right, for the lower earners - $500 pa is not to be sniffed at - but it's not enough to pay for training, because on that level of income you probably can't afford the debt (if you can get loans in the first place). I also understand that tax cuts do not help those who do not pay tax, and that's partly the issue - let's help those who need it most.
Garry's bottom up approach to training is not far from ideal. You can't force training from top down however you can provide the processes and systems in place (like student loans, and tax breaks from training costs) for those who wish to seize on an opportunity.
Perhaps we should take this to parliament. Company tax cuts is not quite through yet. You might need to chat to Ms Hanson.
#1372
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Yeah, problem is people tend not to be very good at identifying them, the coalition paymasters want a surfeit of trained individuals in core jobs for the reason I stated, and in an age of automation, it's hard to identify those jobs that are going to be growth ones (just try naming one).
Personally I don't think we need a 'training system' I think we need a system for people to train themselves across a wide range of activities, in an quick agile fashion. Bottom up vs top down.
Personally I don't think we need a 'training system' I think we need a system for people to train themselves across a wide range of activities, in an quick agile fashion. Bottom up vs top down.
#1373
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Part-time work is difficult to find IME. My wife works full-time and would love to go part-time but cannot find anything - unless it is totally unskilled
In my industry is is very rare
In my industry is is very rare
#1374
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
I would happily go part time to keep the necessities ticking over and spend the rest looking at other opportunities.
#1375
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
#up yours Libs..... Regards Victoria
Biggest landslide in my 38 years in Australia.
Biggest landslide in my 38 years in Australia.
#1377
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
It's not just a federal story though...at a state level the Andrews government has been pretty phenomenal...I think a lot of people can see that. Meanwhile Guy is just relentlessly negative, until his porcelain grin started appearing on billboards everywhere...and all over the Herald Sun of course. I think it's great that seemingly a lot of people have put their general partisan view aside and recognised good government.
#1378
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
It's not just a federal story though...at a state level the Andrews government has been pretty phenomenal...I think a lot of people can see that. Meanwhile Guy is just relentlessly negative, until his porcelain grin started appearing on billboards everywhere...and all over the Herald Sun of course. I think it's great that seemingly a lot of people have put their general partisan view aside and recognised good government.
Mind, I do wonder if the rail tunnel policy is what pulled the eastern suburb vote so strongly towards labor.
#1379
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Free Tafe bext year has been a massive drawcard. Plus Melbourne seems to be booming on all fronts.
#1380
Re: Bye bye Liberal Government..... will you ever learn.
Melburnians have also seen through the Apex law and order bullsheet... Seen it for what it really is. Youth problems rarher than a race issue.