the troubadour

The damage has been explained with on going consistency. That of course being the on going decline on living standards and a government not in the mode of improving the life of its people, preferring the big side of town in every instance and increasing the wealth of those already of means.

Beoz

So there is no damage as living standards have increased for most. It would be interesting to actually hear from anyone who feel their own personal living standards have declined over time (say 20-30 years), what aspect of living standard has declined and why.

You included.

the troubadour

Most though leveraged to the eyeballs. Most 'this' alleged wealth through house inflation. Indeed those that bought last century or earlier part of this century, made a once in a lifetime killing. Those are becoming less as huge loans to pay over priced houses, resulting in some of the highest personally indebted people in the world become more into focus. Falling house prices and probable rising rates will further exacerbate, an already pretty lethal mix. Stagnant wages, falling in some cases, as well as the gig economy complete the rest. Record, unneeded immigration levels may be preventing a deeper housing fall for the moment as well as disguise somewhat, just how delicate the economy really is.

Rising costs, stagnant or low wage rises, overly inflated jaw dropping house prices all amount to lower living standards. Not to mention an unemployment benefit that is impossible to sustain beyond the basics, poor rental protections increasingly poor job protections.
Just a few things for you to be getting on with.

Beoz

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Most of that talks about an attempt at predicting the future.

But there were 3 present day take aways there about living standards.

1. Big loans. - Well as you said this does not include those who bought some time back, in a day of high interest rates. Today those people are laughing, having a great time with small interest rates. For others who may have bought in recent years, in case you did not know, a bank won't lend you over a certain proportion of your income. So no one is suffering a living standard loss today due to a mortgage.

2. Stagnant wages only matters if inflation is rising. Both are on par with each other so no standard of living drop there.

3. Unemployment benefits. Hmmm. So this is the only group seeing a standard of living drop. Ok. Let's run with that.

So really at the end of that torturous exercise one group, those on unemployment benefits, is seeing a drop in living standards.

You forgot to include some mining workers in that too.

For the rest of us, the majority of us, its onwards and upwards. Jump on board.

the troubadour

1. Well not quite. Although interest rates were indeed for a time eye watering high, house prices were by and large affordable. Now we have the opposite. Low rates and expensive assets. It should also be taken into account the rather vast number of people given loans, many interest only on false declarations. Often not entirely their fault, as their broker or indeed banker prime interest was bonus, not feasibility necessary of ability to repay come a change in economy or interest rate rises.
Interest rates will go up, I'm afraid when foreign borrowings cost more. Not to much can be done for those whom will suffer greater pain. WA a prime example to other states and what will likely follow although not done over here yet.

2 Stagnant wages are concerning with rising costs. Inflation does look like raising its head again, but ever increasing utility costs, housing inflation long taken out of reckoning in the Australian context but there is a reason spending is low. People do not have the money to splash around. Again high immigration does go away towards disguising the true economy.

3 Unemployment benefit is not sustainable and even Chamber of Commerce has pushed for it to be at least of a sustainable nature, in line of other rich democratic western nations outside of the Anglo sphere. But far from that group being alone. The inability of many to obtain enough hours, decent wages, entitlements has further added to the duress.

Besides migrants, many from poorer nations, I doubt you'll find almost anybody that will tell you Australia is a better country than it was ten, definitely twenty or thirty years ago. Of course those whom have witnessed massive housing inflation to which they have done very well, may be rubbing their hands. A downside to that though is an ever increasing level of inter family break down around wills, I have noticed, personally over recent years. But even those that gained substantially, and cruise away their unearned income many will admit, if at all honest, or care, the unfairness towards this generation of it all. Better not breach the subject of immigration as a tirade of fifties type unreconstructed, ill informed bias is more likely than not to be spewed out.

Beoz

Hardly the present = No living standard decline. Its been a living standard increase with more funny money available to Bruce and Sheila.

Maybe for the future, no signs of interest rates going anywhere. There is talk this interest rate environment is the new norm. APRA playing with who can borrow what. Still, living standards increase.

Inflation 1.9%. Wage Growth 2.1% =============== Living Standard Increase

That's Perth ...... Come to Sydney ....... jobs galore.

So what was the unfortunately consequence of the mass migration of the 50's and 60's? You still haven't answered that one.

the troubadour

1. Hardly the present? What are you referring to? Due to housing inflation especially in Sydney and Melbourne, it has never been more expensive, nor more impossible for ever more to purchase a house. Sure Bruce and Sheila are likely to be in debt to their eye balls, which technically means their financial institution 'owns them'. One cannot claim a living standard increase without ownership of the product. Not too different then in respects to renting apart from longer tenure providing the banks are paid.

2 New norm? While well aware of the expression and of course banks have been more than happy to accommodate ever growing numbers, regardless as proven recently, means to pay, easy bread and butter money for the banks. Come higher rates with overseas borrowing of money, you'll see how the banks respond.

3. Inflation under rated. While such a basic commodity as housing is not taken into account, for obvious reasons, just as other figures like the official unemployment figure are meaningless, housing is not a choice, be it rental or seeking ownership.
The fact that ever more cannot afford to live in our main cities is clear indication living standards have fallen. People are forced to settle for less. The over loading of our main cities, has created great competition in all important areas. It is as so much in this country, badly planned, well not planned at all, left to a laisez faire mentality of sink or swim.

4. I have answered you 50/60's quarry which the Lib's like to bring up when failing miserably to explain the need for record immigration intake. (to which they fail miserably) Don't just read the Lib script, look into the differences. The need for labour to build the country. The two years migrants done working often bush to repay their debt, often away from their family, or indeed the need for factory workers (Melbourne especially) Australia was a very protected market in those days. Plenty of unskilled jobs and those requiring grunt. Migrants dispersed further afield. Not 80% confined to Melbourne and Sydney. Not to a market that does not require excess workers. Not as a business and money spinner in itself.
I could go on but you get the drift. Next question?

Beoz

People don't pay 70 or 80% of their income in mortgage repayments. Banks keep you at about 30%-40%. The rest is yours to buy whatever you like. No different to 30 years ago.

Mortgage defaults are at their lowest ever.

Your mathematics is not stacking up I'm afraid and therefore living standards have increased

Your theory ...... the banks are saddle with billions of dollars worth of property no one can afford to repay. ....... you think the banks are going to do that to themselves ....... please.

I just can't get from A to B without tripping over the so many homeless. ............ you are talking rubbish trying to push a make believe agenda.

Again nonsense. We would be in a recession if that were the case. People would not be spending money.

If you want to share the spoils of the "right type of migration" petition your state government, otherwise they will just go to where needs them.

the troubadour

1. Not true far too many through crooked practices by brokers , could say more but leave it at that have been proven to have conducted corrupt practices. Banks were only too happy to oblige loans. Do you not read the shenanigans from the Banking Inquiry? One thing for certain your critique is never the big end of town.

Mortgage defaults are at their highest in WA. Besides the number of people that will be impacted come a moderate rate rise is staggering. Household debt is at dangerous levels. House prices are falling. A sudden correction of greater proportion or a slow down in the Chinese market would seriously damage Australia.

2 Do I think banks care? Well as you ask not really. They well know they have the ear of government that will bend over backwards,.....I would say their antics have to date shown great irresponsibility. . The fact that this dreadful government in position at the moment, for years refused a Royal Commission , goes to saying a lot. Too big to fail and tax payers support through government when going belly up, why would they bother being responsible?

3 So rubbish that houses whom existence is supposed to be to house people have fallen into the realm of unaffordability? Really? Rental numbers at all time recent highs in over loaded Sydney. Simply too many can no longer afford to buy, or else do not want to take on an eye watering mortgage for life. It is not a good look and Sydney is far from alone. Most all Australian cities are overinflated due to investors and cheap money.

4 Oh dear, not having a good day today with error after error doing nothing but underlying the myths. Consumer confidence sharply down, according to ANZ Roy Morgon.
ANZ Head of Australian Economics, David Plank, went further, suggested the tripping over of house market is to blame.
Don't take it from me, but believe it that there is serious concern out there with the market. I suppose your solution would be triple immigration? Thing being of course fewer migrants are going to be taken in by outlandish priced houses not worth half the asking price.

5 Well again NO. The government will not discuss migration. There certainly should be a debate put on the table and all interested parties can partake. But no. They well know the feelings out in the community . On occasions when a polly is called to account their response would not top a grade school class. A cut to normal rates would expose the true nature of the economy.

I do hope you are not taking reference from Treasury . They can hardly be called 'non political ' in their utterances.

Beoz

You've been drinking the Guardian's Koolaid. I few falsified loans. So what?

WA is a law until itself. I keep reminding you but you don't listen. WA is not Australia. Its a small part of it.

Do the banks care ...... do the shareholders, those board directors care if their shares plummet in value ..... well you tell me?

Most cannot afford to buy in their first choice area. Anyone with an income can afford to buy in other locations. Given Sydney has the lowest unemployment in the country, that's a lot of people. The fact is, we have become a society who expects. (just look in the mirror). Buying that 400m2 family home in Bronte will never be for all. It never was.

I don't know anyone in Sydney who didn't pick up some type of property by the time they finished their 30's. Some don't live in the property they own, preferring to rent in an area they want to live. But who cares. We can't all buy a freestanding 400m2 in downtown Manly.

Are we in recession? No. We are growing. Well some of us are. Some of us like to spend their time complaining about life.

They have discussed it. Do you not listen? We prevent those who want to come in the back door, or those who skills are no longer required from entering, and allow those who are needed to come and contribute. The right type of immigration.

Onwards and Upwards.

the troubadour

No need to come in the back door when the front is easy enough to entre. The evidence is everywhere of the failure of record migration. Obviously some tightening has had to be implemented to retain any sense of integrity. But the rorts continue. I already started a thread, clearly under lining that there was not the work shortages as this government attempts to pass of for own reasons. ALP no better.

WE are not in a recession, but have stagnant wage growth and the worlds most inflated real estate. May as well be. Friends brought houses in early thirties? Proving what? Financial institutions would almost beg you to take their money. Cheap loans to buy over priced assets. Now what could go wrong?

Well no banks won't care until brought to book, Bank exploitation and the rest you gloss over without much of a care. How typical. Anyway a 'bit of bird' for those on the top would see corrupt practices defer and a sense of enlightenment return to what has become something of a sordid industry.

Could write more but other things to do and won't be on this forum for quite some time. Try not to misbehave. You too can attempt enlightenment and ditch the ideology that goes nowhere.

Beoz

WA is not Australia my friend. You need to get out more. Try Sydney especially. Plenty of shortages in many sectors. As I explained to you I cannot find certain individuals to fill roles and crackdowns on skilled importing has made that task all the more challenging. That trend is repeated.

But the narrow minds keep beating the drum forcing the hand of policy makers.

Stagnant wage growth is a world event. Count yourself lucky when wage growth is beating inflation. This is what you want.

Australia does not have the most inflated property prices. Other countries beat Australia.

Why do you lie?

scrubbedexpat098

Right now, which bag of wind was waffling on about nurses working double shifts through choice?? I had the misfortune to wind up at the doctor's last wednesday morning after 3 days of abdominal pain. By the same time the next morning I was under the knife at our local hospital having a an infected gallbladder removed.

Now one of the nurses that was tending me on the night before my surgery was quite happy to have a bit of a chat between my morphine induced sleeps and when I asked her about hours, she said that she was finishing at 06:00 after 19 hours, and was back in at 16:00. I asked if there was anything she could do about it, she said yes I could leave them short staffed and you wouldn't be getting looked after. She wasn't agency, wasn't working 2 different jobs, she just gave a shit. I value that in a nurse to be honest.

A bit of humility wouldn't do you any harm Bozo, none at all.

Beoz

So much for jobs shortages and over supply of nurses Stevie Irish.

scrubbedexpat098

Yeah but there's no way Man City are losing the premiership in the next 3 years