Broad Shoulders

Ok, well using the Oval 05 as an example, if you can think back that far. That innings is what made him and cemented himself as a test batsman. It is also what made him a feared batsman all around the world.

I remember him coming out after lunch, when he was still only on 30 odd and absolutely pounding Brett Lee for successive hook shot sixes. Every one of those shots had me wincing and looking through my hands in despair, waiting for one of the fielders they had on that boundary to take the catch. He then took on Shane Warne in similar fashion. He does this not just out of pure instinct, but it is a team orientated move. Hussey did exactly the same to Swann in Brisbane. He decided he wanted to go after Swann (Warne and Lee in 05) so that they would be moved out of the attack quickly, as the batsman knew they/he was the most dangerous bowler/s. In Hussey and KP's case it worked as all the bowlers were taken from the attack.

Had KP been caught off one of those ambitious sixes we would have lost that test, and more importantly the Ashes! The Aussies had us in that test until KP went on the offensive.

The best example of it working and not working for KP was Adelaide in 06'. In the first innings he made 158 (again) with Warne having no way of stopping his extravagant runs, to the point that Warne started bowling around the wicket (modern equivalent of bodyline tactics). Over night KP said "Warne will never get me out bowling around the wicket". In the second innings, KP went out and boldly played the same way, except that Warne DID get him out bowling around the wicket! Disregarding Collingwood's amazing 206* KP was really the only reason we weren't beaten by an innings in every single test of that series and I think that if you are going to accept his successes you have to be willing to accept his silly mistakes

papilon

It's not a stupid argument at all. If Pietersen wants to go down as a great test batsmen then he needs to wise up and stop playing stupid shots. There is a time to be flamboyant and a time to remember it's a team game. At the time Pietersen was out he put England in a precarious position. Pietersens stats don't stack up and when he is finished he will be remembered as only an average batsman. He has more than enough talent to be remembered as a great. I don't buy the he can't change crap, it just seems he is not smart enough too.
What's good about England these days is even if Pietersen is not playing England do not rely on him, he could have stayed in England and we still would have won the ashes just like we did in 2009.

mikelincs

As batsmen, Flintoft and Botham were just like Pietersen, and were still match winners

Broad Shoulders

He has come back from a crippling injury that took him a while to get to grips with (this series in fact). That meant his average dipped below 50 for the first time in his career. If he carries on in the same form he has shown in this series that average will go back up to above 50, which is not "average" but in fact very good (Sachin is currently on 56 average which is deemed excellent).

He is definitely not a batsman in the same league as Sachin, or Ponting or Lara for that matter. They, in their primes were freaks of cricket. KP is not one of them. I would put KP in the same league as Sehwag, Sangakarra, Hayden and co, who were deemed as very good batsmen and their stats stood up to that. So far KP's do too. As for your point about England being in a precarious position at the time, read my other post about the Oval in 05' that won us the Ashes, that is no different, except that one paid off and he probably played more risky shots in that innings than he did yesterday!

Broad Shoulders

As were/are Gilchrist, Sehwag, Jayasuriya, Gayle. All of which will be remembered as very good batsmen who like/d to flash their bat whenever they could

DeadVim

I'd rather he was in the team than not and yes, I agree, when on song he can be the difference but I still reckon he could take a step back occasionally.

Hell, I bat like a bunny in the headlights so what do I know?

papilon

Pietersen is probably more a number 5 or 6 test batsman, but a very good one day and t20 player.

Broad Shoulders

As a general rule of thumb, your best batsman should bat at 3 or 4. KP's average suggests that he is that. (Trott has not played enough tests or countries to qualify for that spot IMO, time will tell)

Tendulkar
Chanderpaul
Lara
Ponting
Bopara*
Kallis

all played either 3 or 4 for most of their careers

*slipped in for Vim

papilon

Cook
Strauss
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Pietersen
Prior
Broad
Swann
Tremlett
Anderson

papilon

ICC investigating worrying reports of irregular betting patterns in the fifth test at Sydney. Some people backed Australia

Broad Shoulders

Must have been because of all those Butts getting kicked

papilon

The only one in this lineup that has a chance of going down as a batting test great is Cook, and thats because he is only 26 and hopefully can improve and learn.

Broad Shoulders

In terms of number of runs, I agree with you. But it is going to take some mighty batting to up his average above 50 as he has already played 65 odd tests.

He'll easily become England's greatest run scorer though as he's only 3,500 runs off Gooch's record. He should easily achieve 10,000, which I think KP will do too, but with a higher average

papilon

For England's sake i hope your right

DeadVim

There have been more pressing problems with English cricket going into day 4 of the Sydney test, let's face it

I think they work well as a unit, especially the bowling attack ... didn't a poster say Anderson couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo way back?