You're Putting it WHERE!
May 13th 2003, 11:33 am
#31
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 212
Originally posted by Slippers
Another couple of anti-immigrant emigrants.
Immigrants to the UK are trying to give themselves and their families a better life. Just what you want to do by leaving the UK and giving downunder the pleasure of your company. You are taking advantage of the imbalance in economies and helping to price locals in NZ/Oz out of the housing market with your money earned in that hell hole the UK. Don't act like you are doing your new countries any favours. As PB says, you are refugees too, so why don't you pack in the hypocrisy?
Slippers
Another couple of anti-immigrant emigrants.
Immigrants to the UK are trying to give themselves and their families a better life. Just what you want to do by leaving the UK and giving downunder the pleasure of your company. You are taking advantage of the imbalance in economies and helping to price locals in NZ/Oz out of the housing market with your money earned in that hell hole the UK. Don't act like you are doing your new countries any favours. As PB says, you are refugees too, so why don't you pack in the hypocrisy?
Slippers
sashimi
May 13th 2003, 11:55 am
#32
A Male Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Townsville
Posts: 2,106
Hi slippers.. i do agree partly with what you said, being that the influx of immigrants can keep a housing market bouyant, but i cannot believe that it would have too significant an affect.
However, i certainly do not regard myself, nor most others on this board as a refugee. Look up the definition of the word and you would see exactly what i mean.
Oxford english gives this.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
I personally am suffering none of these afflicitons....
PB attemps to use the word in a derogatory manner, trying to get people to bite, are you doing the same?
Also, different people prefer different things (different strokes for different folks, as my wife would say). I personally love the photos taken by Bilbo, and i for one would have no problem with having them as the view from my back yard.
Before someone says "ohhhh but your going to end up in a suburrrbbb", yes i pretty much definatly will at first. Working as a geologist i will get to work in the outdoors, and maybe move out into the country a bit more, we will just have to wait and see.
However, i certainly do not regard myself, nor most others on this board as a refugee. Look up the definition of the word and you would see exactly what i mean.
Oxford english gives this.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
I personally am suffering none of these afflicitons....
PB attemps to use the word in a derogatory manner, trying to get people to bite, are you doing the same?
Also, different people prefer different things (different strokes for different folks, as my wife would say). I personally love the photos taken by Bilbo, and i for one would have no problem with having them as the view from my back yard.
Before someone says "ohhhh but your going to end up in a suburrrbbb", yes i pretty much definatly will at first. Working as a geologist i will get to work in the outdoors, and maybe move out into the country a bit more, we will just have to wait and see.
May 13th 2003, 10:03 pm
#33
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: NZ
Posts: 207
Originally posted by PeteY
Hi slippers.. i do agree partly with what you said, being that the influx of immigrants can keep a housing market bouyant, but i cannot believe that it would have too significant an affect.
However, i certainly do not regard myself, nor most others on this board as a refugee. Look up the definition of the word and you would see exactly what i mean.
Oxford english gives this.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
I personally am suffering none of these afflicitons....
PB attemps to use the word in a derogatory manner, trying to get people to bite, are you doing the same?
Also, different people prefer different things (different strokes for different folks, as my wife would say). I personally love the photos taken by Bilbo, and i for one would have no problem with having them as the view from my back yard.
Before someone says "ohhhh but your going to end up in a suburrrbbb", yes i pretty much definatly will at first. Working as a geologist i will get to work in the outdoors, and maybe move out into the country a bit more, we will just have to wait and see.
Hi slippers.. i do agree partly with what you said, being that the influx of immigrants can keep a housing market bouyant, but i cannot believe that it would have too significant an affect.
However, i certainly do not regard myself, nor most others on this board as a refugee. Look up the definition of the word and you would see exactly what i mean.
Oxford english gives this.
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
I personally am suffering none of these afflicitons....
PB attemps to use the word in a derogatory manner, trying to get people to bite, are you doing the same?
Also, different people prefer different things (different strokes for different folks, as my wife would say). I personally love the photos taken by Bilbo, and i for one would have no problem with having them as the view from my back yard.
Before someone says "ohhhh but your going to end up in a suburrrbbb", yes i pretty much definatly will at first. Working as a geologist i will get to work in the outdoors, and maybe move out into the country a bit more, we will just have to wait and see.
I am not an anti-immigrant emigrant and so you are free to move wherever you like.
So many people here seem to put themselves in an entirely different category to people who leave their own coutries to go to the UK in search of a better life. Personally, I have more feeling for someone fleeing war or persecution going to the UK than some rich person (relative to world standards) fleeing to Oz or NZ in search of refuge from immigrants to the UK and taking the sort of lump sum that locals may never come up with, given local wages. Some people here are refugees in the sense that they are seeking refuge from something - the original meaning of refugee (have a look back in your OED) - and that something, ironically, is often stated to be refugees to the UK.
You are probably right though. My using the word "refugee", implying the seeking of relief from war or persecution in your more modern definition, gives a dignity to many posters motives that they do not deserve.
Slippers
May 14th 2003, 3:44 am
#34
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Originally posted by Bilbo
Imagine noone is going to help you while you keep whining and whining will not help you find the photo. Get on with it or go whine at hubby until the poor bastard gives in and does it for you.
Imagine noone is going to help you while you keep whining and whining will not help you find the photo. Get on with it or go whine at hubby until the poor bastard gives in and does it for you.
If you had actually seen the real outback you would know exactly why nobody here would post a photo of any type of settlement, it would be too shocking.
Get real mate there are a lot of things here that are a long way from paradise.
Preaching from the UK or from a Suburban housing estate in Brisvegas/Perth does not show you the Outback.
My husband took me out there, showed me things I reckon a lot of Aussies dont want to admit to. Certainly things you wont see in "Life in the Sun". Same for NZ too, both have poverty that the english cannot even imagine. Bet you never had a english kid, asking you for your shoes, or for your lunch, or for your wine.
There is so much more to OZ than the bits you see on the telly.
May 14th 2003, 3:49 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by dotty
I dont think you live in OZ because the Jokes in the previous posts went right over your head.
If you had actually seen the real outback you would know exactly why nobody here would post a photo of any type of settlement, it would be too shocking.
Get real mate there are a lot of things here that are a long way from paradise.
Preaching from the UK or from a Suburban housing estate in Brisvegas/Perth does not show you the Outback.
My husband took me out there, showed me things I reckon a lot of Aussies dont want to admit to. Certainly things you wont see in "Life in the Sun". Same for NZ too, both have poverty that the english cannot even imagine. Bet you never had a english kid, asking you for your shoes, or for your lunch, or for your wine.
There is so much more to OZ than the bits you see on the telly.
I dont think you live in OZ because the Jokes in the previous posts went right over your head.
If you had actually seen the real outback you would know exactly why nobody here would post a photo of any type of settlement, it would be too shocking.
Get real mate there are a lot of things here that are a long way from paradise.
Preaching from the UK or from a Suburban housing estate in Brisvegas/Perth does not show you the Outback.
My husband took me out there, showed me things I reckon a lot of Aussies dont want to admit to. Certainly things you wont see in "Life in the Sun". Same for NZ too, both have poverty that the english cannot even imagine. Bet you never had a english kid, asking you for your shoes, or for your lunch, or for your wine.
There is so much more to OZ than the bits you see on the telly.
May 14th 2003, 3:56 am
#36
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Originally posted by Slippers
I am not an anti-immigrant emigrant and so you are free to move wherever you like.
So many people here seem to put themselves in an entirely different category to people who leave their own coutries to go to the UK in search of a better life. Personally, I have more feeling for someone fleeing war or persecution going to the UK than some rich person (relative to world standards) fleeing to Oz or NZ in search of refuge from immigrants to the UK and taking the sort of lump sum that locals may never come up with, given local wages. Some people here are refugees in the sense that they are seeking refuge from something - the original meaning of refugee (have a look back in your OED) - and that something, ironically, is often stated to be refugees to the UK.
You are probably right though. My using the word "refugee", implying the seeking of relief from war or persecution in your more modern definition, gives a dignity to many posters motives that they do not deserve.
Slippers
I am not an anti-immigrant emigrant and so you are free to move wherever you like.
So many people here seem to put themselves in an entirely different category to people who leave their own coutries to go to the UK in search of a better life. Personally, I have more feeling for someone fleeing war or persecution going to the UK than some rich person (relative to world standards) fleeing to Oz or NZ in search of refuge from immigrants to the UK and taking the sort of lump sum that locals may never come up with, given local wages. Some people here are refugees in the sense that they are seeking refuge from something - the original meaning of refugee (have a look back in your OED) - and that something, ironically, is often stated to be refugees to the UK.
You are probably right though. My using the word "refugee", implying the seeking of relief from war or persecution in your more modern definition, gives a dignity to many posters motives that they do not deserve.
Slippers
What I am against is the unrestrained entry of so-called 'refugees' to the UK, 100,000 just last year according to the govt's estimate, 200,000 generally reckoned to be the true number. A small fraction are real refugees - fine. The rest are economic refugees and gangsters who have not been through any kind of skilled migration process. They are not exactly going to be a positive influence on the UK - economically, socially, cost to education/ health/ police/ judiciary etc. Guess who pays?
Cheers - Don
May 14th 2003, 4:54 am
#37
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: NZ
Posts: 207
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
Nor am I an anti-immigrant immigrant, despite you labelling me as such (see above). If you search these forums, you will see that some time ago I dreamed of free movement of labour the world over, starting with the rich countries and gradually allowing in all other countries as they met certain criteria. Even right now I think the OECD countries could allow free movement of labour without too much turmoil and with the benefit of a much better range of opportunities for OECD citizens and surely an economic boost everywhere concerned.
What I am against is the unrestrained entry of so-called 'refugees' to the UK, 100,000 just last year according to the govt's estimate, 200,000 generally reckoned to be the true number. A small fraction are real refugees - fine. The rest are economic refugees and gangsters who have not been through any kind of skilled migration process. They are not exactly going to be a positive influence on the UK - economically, socially, cost to education/ health/ police/ judiciary etc. Guess who pays?
Cheers - Don
Nor am I an anti-immigrant immigrant, despite you labelling me as such (see above). If you search these forums, you will see that some time ago I dreamed of free movement of labour the world over, starting with the rich countries and gradually allowing in all other countries as they met certain criteria. Even right now I think the OECD countries could allow free movement of labour without too much turmoil and with the benefit of a much better range of opportunities for OECD citizens and surely an economic boost everywhere concerned.
What I am against is the unrestrained entry of so-called 'refugees' to the UK, 100,000 just last year according to the govt's estimate, 200,000 generally reckoned to be the true number. A small fraction are real refugees - fine. The rest are economic refugees and gangsters who have not been through any kind of skilled migration process. They are not exactly going to be a positive influence on the UK - economically, socially, cost to education/ health/ police/ judiciary etc. Guess who pays?
Cheers - Don
What is your definition of an economic refugee Don? Be very careful to frame it so that it does not overlap with yourself. Avoid terms like "wanting a job", "wanting a better life", "wanting better educational opportunities for their kids", "wanting to start a business in an economy with less regulations and taxes", and so on. You talk as if people trying to get a go in the UK are without skills of any kind or have nothing to offer.
Your dream, as you describe it, is hardly the most humane glimpse into times to come that I have ever heard. You see a system that starts with the rich, those who least need, it fanning out (perhaps) to those in direr straits. Yet you will hope that the NZers treat you with a kinder heart no doubt and welcome you into their community - and for what? Cos you have money? Cos you are going to up the ante when it comes to local house prices? Cos you are going to try and turn a profit out of them when you open your business?
May 14th 2003, 4:59 am
#38
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 147
Originally posted by Slippers
What is your definition of an economic refugee Don? Be very careful to frame it so that it does not overlap with yourself. Avoid terms like "wanting a job", "wanting a better life", "wanting better educational opportunities for their kids", "wanting to start a business in an economy with less regulations and taxes", and so on. You talk as if people trying to get a go in the UK are without skills of any kind or have nothing to offer.
Your dream, as you describe it, is hardly the most humane glimpse into times to come that I have ever heard. You see a system that starts with the rich, those who least need, it fanning out (perhaps) to those in direr straits. Yet you will hope that the NZers treat you with a kinder heart no doubt and welcome you into their community - and for what? Cos you have money? Cos you are going to up the ante when it comes to local house prices? Cos you are going to try and turn a profit out of them when you open your business?
What is your definition of an economic refugee Don? Be very careful to frame it so that it does not overlap with yourself. Avoid terms like "wanting a job", "wanting a better life", "wanting better educational opportunities for their kids", "wanting to start a business in an economy with less regulations and taxes", and so on. You talk as if people trying to get a go in the UK are without skills of any kind or have nothing to offer.
Your dream, as you describe it, is hardly the most humane glimpse into times to come that I have ever heard. You see a system that starts with the rich, those who least need, it fanning out (perhaps) to those in direr straits. Yet you will hope that the NZers treat you with a kinder heart no doubt and welcome you into their community - and for what? Cos you have money? Cos you are going to up the ante when it comes to local house prices? Cos you are going to try and turn a profit out of them when you open your business?
Slippers,
I fear you are talking far too much sense for one or two of the ignoramuses who stalk this site. Stop it at once!
May 14th 2003, 5:00 am
#39
Karma Comedian
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,506
[i]
What I am against is the unrestrained entry of so-called 'refugees' to the UK, 100,000 just last year according to the govt's estimate, 200,000 generally reckoned to be the true number...
What I am against is the unrestrained entry of so-called 'refugees' to the UK, 100,000 just last year according to the govt's estimate, 200,000 generally reckoned to be the true number...
Well, 200,000 immigrants can't all be wrong, sound like it must be a desirable place to live to me...
May 14th 2003, 5:14 am
#40
Release the hounds!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 302
Originally posted by jayr
Well, 200,000 immigrants can't all be wrong, sound like it must be a desirable place to live to me...
Well, 200,000 immigrants can't all be wrong, sound like it must be a desirable place to live to me...
Ah but don't you dare to suggest that they are attracted by the open society in the UK, or some of the lowest unemployment rates in europe (or indeed the developed world) According to the posters here, every single one of 'em comes with the intention of claiming their 30 quid a week dole money. Thats why they're so desperate to get across the channel!
May 14th 2003, 5:18 am
#41
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Originally posted by Slippers
What is your definition of an economic refugee Don? Be very careful to frame it so that it does not overlap with yourself. Avoid terms like "wanting a job", "wanting a better life", "wanting better educational opportunities for their kids", "wanting to start a business in an economy with less regulations and taxes", and so on. You talk as if people trying to get a go in the UK are without skills of any kind or have nothing to offer.
Your dream, as you describe it, is hardly the most humane glimpse into times to come that I have ever heard. You see a system that starts with the rich, those who least need, it fanning out (perhaps) to those in direr straits. Yet you will hope that the NZers treat you with a kinder heart no doubt and welcome you into their community - and for what? Cos you have money? Cos you are going to up the ante when it comes to local house prices? Cos you are going to try and turn a profit out of them when you open your business?
What is your definition of an economic refugee Don? Be very careful to frame it so that it does not overlap with yourself. Avoid terms like "wanting a job", "wanting a better life", "wanting better educational opportunities for their kids", "wanting to start a business in an economy with less regulations and taxes", and so on. You talk as if people trying to get a go in the UK are without skills of any kind or have nothing to offer.
Your dream, as you describe it, is hardly the most humane glimpse into times to come that I have ever heard. You see a system that starts with the rich, those who least need, it fanning out (perhaps) to those in direr straits. Yet you will hope that the NZers treat you with a kinder heart no doubt and welcome you into their community - and for what? Cos you have money? Cos you are going to up the ante when it comes to local house prices? Cos you are going to try and turn a profit out of them when you open your business?
But I am doing I legally. I have satisfied NZIS's migration requirements for PR. Those requirements are framed so that there is a reasonable chance that I will be productive from day 1 and indeed if you look at the earnings statistics for NZ you will see that UK migrants earn above average in NZ (and pay more taxes etc). NZ is inviting me to live there.
The migrants ('refugees') to the UK are generally doing it illegally, uninvited - and will cause many negative effects on the UK economy and social fabric before they assimilate.
Cheers - Don
May 14th 2003, 5:28 am
#42
Karma Comedian
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,506
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
The migrants ('refugees') to the UK are generally doing it illegally, uninvited - and will cause many negative effects on the UK economy and social fabric before they assimilate.
Cheers - Don
The migrants ('refugees') to the UK are generally doing it illegally, uninvited - and will cause many negative effects on the UK economy and social fabric before they assimilate.
Cheers - Don
The UK social fabric must be getting pretty thin if 200,000/60,000,000 (0.3%) is to have such a dramatic effect. And why pick on illegal immigrants, there's a whole black economy on the go with people defrauding the DSS, failing to pay taxes etc. etc.. To blame the alleged woes of the UK on those immigrating seems to be targeting the wrong people
May 14th 2003, 5:32 am
#43
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Originally posted by jayr
The UK social fabric must be getting pretty thin if 200,000/60,000,000 (0.3%) is to have such a dramatic effect. And why pick on illegal immigrants, there's a whole black economy on the go with people defrauding the DSS, failing to pay taxes etc. etc.. To blame the alleged woes of the UK on those immigrating seems to be targeting the wrong people
The UK social fabric must be getting pretty thin if 200,000/60,000,000 (0.3%) is to have such a dramatic effect. And why pick on illegal immigrants, there's a whole black economy on the go with people defrauding the DSS, failing to pay taxes etc. etc.. To blame the alleged woes of the UK on those immigrating seems to be targeting the wrong people
Cheers - Don
May 14th 2003, 5:32 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by jayr
The UK social fabric must be getting pretty thin if 200,000/60,000,000 (0.3%) is to have such a dramatic effect. And why pick on illegal immigrants, there's a whole black economy on the go with people defrauding the DSS, failing to pay taxes etc. etc.. To blame the alleged woes of the UK on those immigrating seems to be targeting the wrong people
The UK social fabric must be getting pretty thin if 200,000/60,000,000 (0.3%) is to have such a dramatic effect. And why pick on illegal immigrants, there's a whole black economy on the go with people defrauding the DSS, failing to pay taxes etc. etc.. To blame the alleged woes of the UK on those immigrating seems to be targeting the wrong people
Last edited by Bilbo; May 14th 2003 at 10:23 am.
May 14th 2003, 8:31 am
#45
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Originally posted by dotty
My husband took me out there, showed me things I reckon a lot of Aussies dont want to admit to. Certainly things you wont see in "Life in the Sun".
My husband took me out there, showed me things I reckon a lot of Aussies dont want to admit to. Certainly things you wont see in "Life in the Sun".