mpgrewal

LA is not infamous for hi-rise sprawl but rather single-storey sprawl. Hi rise buildings is the solution for everything
1. They save agricultural land
2. They keep cities commutable (even by bikes which makes Greens happy)
3. They give breath taking views from the top
4. They keep crime rate low (as policing is easy and security can be applied easily to a single building)
5. They are the prestige of a nation (cities like KL, Dubai, Shanghai are famous only due to hi-rises)
6. They save lot of resources : cables, roads, petrol

They are a WIN-WIN but Nimbys

ABCDiamond

All these Nimbys that just keep complaining about not getting what they want

gelato

[QUOTE=HelenTD;8789483]I can understand the pros of building high-rise (or even medium-rise), but I just don't want to live in it or near it. QUOTE]


If anyone is wondering what NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) means, see above.

As MPGrewal points out LA is infamous for it's endless single story, single family urban sprawl. If Australians don't start building UP they are headed for the same dreary monotonous, smog-filled future.

HelenTD - some of us actually enjoy exercise and we still do it when it's hot or cold out. I walk to work every day (half hour each way) and it often hits 40 degrees during the summer here in Rome. I used to cycle to work in Sydney in similar temperatures.

I've never been overweight and I eat whatever I like! Also, I do little or no environmental damage during my commute and I arrive at work in a good mood.

HelenTD

It depends on your circumstances whether you choose to walk in 40 degree heat. Many of us with kids and all the associated stuff you often have to carry out with you, would not dream of walking a km or even less in that heat. I don't mind walking in cooler conditions, but probably over 30 degrees it's just too hot for me. Add in a hill or two, a major intersection to cross, and I've got the car keys in my hand.

When it comes to residential densities, high-rise does not necessarily mean low carbon footprint, just as low density does not always mean high carbon footprint. In the high-rise, or even just high density, homes that I've seen here, there are huge air conditioning/heating systems and domestic appliances such as tumble dryers are a necessity. We have a double storey house, no air conditioning, no tumble dryer. We have a water-wise garden and tough lawn, which helps to keep the house cool. We have less noise from neighbours and more privacy.

Just because more people might want to live in desirable suburbs, it doesn't mean more and more should be crammed in. If you buy in an area that is high density, that is your informed choice. If you choose to live in a low density suburb, that is also your informed choice, and you shouldn't have your way of life and major investment compromised. It is a democracy, after all, and many countries have a variety of housing options.

gelato

I'm the full time working mother of a two year old and we don't own a car. This is made possible because we live in a flat near-ish to the centre of Rome. I walk pushing the stroller (as does my husband) in all weather. When we buy food at our local markets we either stick it under the stroller or one of us brings the granny cart. Actually the 2 year old likes walking now too. Here in Italy, there's an childhood obesity epidemic (from what I remember it's even worse in Australia) and I'm glad my little girl gets a chance to use her legs rather than just sitting passively in an air conditioned car all the time. If it's a really long way we take the bus, the train or the tram. We're not afraid of busy intersections, hills or hot/cold weather (the climate here is pretty much the same as Sydney where i used to live).

Are they? Here in Italy pretty much everyone lives in a high rise flat (even in small towns) and tumble dryers are unheard of. When we do the washing we just stick it out on the balcony to dry. People who don't have balconies dry their clothes on the roof or (during the winter) on the heater. Don't know why anyone would waste money on a dryer whether they're in flat or house.

We don't have air conditioning in our flat either. They're very unusual here in Italy generally. Our block of flats was built during the 19th century and it has thick walls which keep things relatively cool. There is no more need for air conditioning in a flat than in a house. In either type of dwelling getting AC is a matter of personal preference.

mpgrewal

Where there's a will, there's a way. If not in harsh weather, Australians can cycle in pleasant weather months (at least 4 months a year).

I wish Greens come to power and they mandate biking at least for young people... excessively optimisitc wish though

gelato

I agree, mpgrewal. In the Netherlands everyone cycles and it's often pouring with rain with howling winds. But somehow they manage it and stay healthy and happy. Same in Scandinavia. Older people in NL use electric bikes or mopeds. I think it's great - environmentally healthy and none of the ugly urban sprawl we see in Australian cities. And as a nice side effect it's healthier and reduces obesity levels.

LA is my nightmare. I have friends who used to live there and they told me that the driving distances and traffic (despite the 6 lane each way freeways everywhere) were so bad that they literally couldn't go and see friends on the other side of LA on the weekend. I prefer New York.

ABCDiamond

I assume you don't want that in your backyard then ? NIMBY

gelato

I don't have a backyard. I live in a flat.

HelenTD

You choose to live in a flat close to the centre of Rome, with local markets and public transport. We choose to live in a Perth suburb, but there is only one bus an hour during the day to take us to a shopping centre. There is no local shop, nearest one is about 3 km away and it is very expensive. There is a huge hill in the way and a major road to cross. This hill is one that is favoured by those boot camp type of personal fitness instructors - but not by me with bags of shopping. The only person who could cycle up this hill would be an Olympic gold medallist. There are several other hills like this near where we live. We only have one car, considered ridiculous by many people I know.

Around here, there are rules and people are not allowed to hang out washing on balconies. Some people with gardens and somewhere to hang up washing outside still have dryers. Although Perth has wonderful drying weather for 9 months of the year, five days of heavy rain is too much for some people.

Unfortuntely a lot of Australian houses are not as well built and have poor orientation to the prevailing winds and northern sun. Perhaps you should come over to Perth for summer.

HelenTD

It depends on local topography and climate. Here it is very hilly and windy, and very hot for 5 months of the year. You need good local facilities and public transport to leave the car at home, or not buy one at all. Large parts of Perth suffer from poor planning decisions. Before you judge, you should try and live here. If you are an experienced and skill town planner, you would be most welcome.

ExKiwilass

I still read The Age even though I live in Vancouver now, but I lived in Melbourne for 4.5 years.

Honestly, reading about the lack of foresight & vision in city planning in Melbourne makes me ever happier I left.

I'm with gelato and mpgrewal - I don't understand the fear of highrises. We had our first child in a highrise. Where I live it's pretty much the norm to have highrises in suburbs, centered around transit hubs and shopping. Lots of people live in them and as mp said, they are very safe, and for a lot of working people, far less maintenance, easy to get to because they're right by skytrain or bus stations.

As part of the deal developers here have to pay money towards new facilities, bike paths etc, so the infrastructure keeps up. Everyone wins. The carbon footprint argument by Helen just doesn't stack up - here many new developments are being built to LEED standard, with geothermal heating and cooling, low-emission paints, etc, not to mention that lack of sprawl and eating up of prime agricultural land. I mean, if you don't have local farms, you're going to be importing your food from someplace else. Generally I find the standard of building here to be higher than what I remember of Melbourne. I lived in a block of flats in St Kilda, the noise/smell ingress was terrible - it was like they were made of nylon. I haven't had the same issues here. Perhaps it would help if building standards were improved? I don't know.

ExKiwilass

That's the problem not the topography or climate.

ExKiwilass

We have very similar lifestyles.

HelenTD

I've never lived higher than on the third floor of a building. I don't even like staying in a hotel more than a few floors up. Perhaps I've got a fear of heights that I never knew about, although I just think I want to be close to the outside and have space. For me it's a personal preference. I don't know anyone in the UK or Australia who lives in anything higher than a 2 storey house with a garden.