Why emigrate?
 

I chanced on this forum and have spent a surprising amount of time reading it considering I'm an Australian who's family emigrated to South Australia in 1836 and who has never considered emigrating from Australia.

I spent my youth wandering the Australian bush exploring for minerals and I did wander the world for a few years some time ago so perhaps I empathise with movers.

But why emigrate? Why not just take a long holiday? Or is that exactly it - a long working holiday?

Perhaps I can be helpfully informative and I look forward to your response.

Re: Why emigrate?
 

If you lived here... you would understand.

1. The Crap weather and spending most of your time indoors cos in either cold or raining.

2. The government are so crap. The only thing they are good at is affairs and sex scandals.

3. You spend the majority of your life paying the interest off your house. (in twenty five years you might even get to own it!)

4. Nobody can let their kids even play outside (when it is sunny) these days without the fear of either being abducted or worse!

5. The public transport is so bad that if it doesnt crash, its either cancelled or two hours late.

Im not saying Australia doesn't have these problems and live is going to be so wonderful, but if we have a chance of improving it then which fool is going to turn that down?

mich

why emigrate
 

here here wolfens_wife couldn't agree more....

Hi,

I do agree with Wolfens wife but having been to Australia over Christmas and wanting to live there I did find my home and history absolutley beautiful the holiday made me appreciate how lovley the place is where I live. Australia is stunning but has less character than (and my Aussy freinds admit that) than here just due to the history.

We would like to move for the following reasons

Weather brings opportunity for sport - although it doens't have twilight in Queensland and goes dark about six at night the weather is warm and you can play any sport you choose and boy do you.

More relaxed attitude and wanting out of the Rat Race - I know it does exist, I have seen it over there but class is non exsistant you are either rich or comfortable, there is less keeping up with the Jones which I hate.

Over here for a shop assistant to smile at you when serving you is a miracle let alone say goodbye (my pet hate) In Oz everyone was curtious and polite and happy genuinelly to see us. they almost make you feel miserable and that was right across Australia

The house I could buy with land is twice the size of one here for the relative price you have the land to use.

Our minds where made up as we thought that nearly everyone was possibly the freindliest people who are willing to talk and chat that we had ever met.

I won't dog the UK too much it's where I am from, we have alot of good things that maybe we don't appreciate why we are here. I have now learned to apprecaite my family more, the place I live the quality of life you can have.

Carrianne

im emmergrating coz i`m bored with life in the north east. when they say its grim up north their not kidding. the beaches are a joke, crappy yellow builders sand with the lovely polluted freezing north sea and just down the coast you have I.C.I chemical works. mmmmm nice (cough splutter cough).
i hate the dark winter months aswel so if its not raining its bloody freezing. i just want to do something with my life.
it will be a fresh start and a good adventure, or i could be like my dad who has never been abroad and just sits in every night and watch t.v and if the weathers ok at the weekend cut the grass. BORING!!!!!!zzzzzzzz

Re: Why emigrate?
 

For us, it's an OPPORTUNITY for change. Not everyone has the luxury of choice in their lives.

I find, that in the UK, people are generally stuck up, they define you by your job and by how much you earn. People in the UK are currently feeling 'rich' due to the house price explosion and therefore can't be bothered to look at the bigger picture and realise that they are not in fact 'rich' at all. Remortgaging their houses and buying a new Mercedes is their idea of a fulfilling and complete life. (When it all goes economically downhill - in about 6 months time with the current stock market performance, house price collapse and Gordon Brown's inevitable tax rises - people will realise what a complete crap hole the UK really is!)

The UK is a great place if you're loaded. You can afford to send your kids to the best schools rather than a local school (like ours!) that teaches the children that really useful language like Urdu, Swahili and God knows what else. If your rich, you can live in a nice secluded, secure estate, no crack dens setting up across the street, nor 'care in the community' people, paedophiles, convicts (let out early due to our overstretched prison system) housed next door.

Private medical insurance is a bonus too, if you have none then be prepared to wait for hours and hours to be seen by a doctor then risk the chance of catching a virus from the dirty wards.

Going to work is an ongoing battle, traffic jams, expensive petrol and road taxes, congestion charges - in London. Delayed, dirty and expensive trains, people coughing in your face because it's so over crowded. Never mind the explosion of TB & HIV in the UK. I no longer use the tube due to potential terrorist attacks - heavy police presence is all around, so something must be up? Just look around the UK, people look grey and miserable that's because we live in a grey and miserable country.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oz has the same problems - but hey! the sun shines most days and that's good enough for me!!

:beer: :beer: :beer:

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Well said.... Australia gives people the opportunity to do with your life, what only the rich and greedy in the UK can do at present..


Wolfen

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Well said, it does make a hell of a lot of difference when the sun shines and you can actually leave the 4 walls of the house, we saw the sun today - first time in months, what a treat (-11 degrees windchill to look forward to on Wednesday though!)

Good for you!! EEE by Gum, Oz here you come..........

Re: Why emigrate?
 

OOOH, don't forget 'Footballer's Wives', on Wednesday - God, my life is dull!!

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Can't wait to scrape the ice from my windscreen - inside and out, AGAIN. Also, I bet the my train's 'points are frozen over' so I can't make it to work. Ho hum........., will spend my day on Expats instead and dream of Oz, with like minded people..........

Re: Why emigrate?
 

I think I understand - partially. I spent a few months living in a pub in Somerset in the summer of 1981 - a dryish year.

I remember it with fondness. For me, especially after travelling through parts of the world where English is a second or third language, it was nice to meet interesting people with whom I could talk easily. The people made me feel like I had returned to my village after a long, long absence - and given my family history perhaps that was so. I loved the soft evening light - one could read the newspaper outdoors until 10:30 pm.

But by late Autumn the chill winds stirred in me the need to migrate south - so I have not experienced the fullness of winter in the UK. I did experience a year, including winter, in the USA. I remember for a year or so afterwards feeling as though the chill would not leave my bones.

Of course, some people in Australia also spend many years paying off their homes. The world belongs to owners (is that an oxymoron?) and home ownership is a cornerstone of family wealth. A poorly located home will not appreciate in value and not contribute to the family balance sheet. The mortgage on a well located home can suck cash from the family. I think it is an difficult balancing act and one which requires careful consideration. It may pay to rent, especially if you are uncertain of your future, until you can find the right home to buy or build.

Simply by moving you might place your self in the path of opportunity - but that is, of course, a financial gamble. I would hope that a change of scenery would have you feeling more energized and ready to grasp or make new opportunities. There are plenty of working poor here just as in the UK.

I don't really understand why people wanna emigrate from England, but if you consider where I am from, the real question is "Who wouldn't wanna emigrate?". The violence here is horrible, we work tons to have a very low standard of living and for that we are considered rich and are constantly the targets of violence. So for us, if we can move to Australia and mop floors for a living but still be able to pay the bills for our modest lifestyle in the end of the month, and be able to drive to work without being kidnapped at gunpoint, it is wonderful. You might think the kidnap thing is an exageration, but it is so common that it has happened to one of my cousins TWICE as she drove to university, at 8 am.

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Went out for a walk yesterday (Sunday) first day we'd been able to together as a family since way before Christmas. We went to local castle and gardens....weather was nice, a hint of spring in the air.

We togged up in wellies, boys bike in the back of the car, and went off.

Paid to park the car, with several hundred others who had the same idea and went to the only place they could think of, had a walk, which was nice, but ended up covered in mud and dog dirt.....

The thing is it's always like that, you're never on your own in the UK (ok so there are parts you can be, but they aren't near me)..

That's what I'm looking forward to in Oz, going for a walk when ever, where it's quiet and where you won't get muddy.
Mash...

My mother, an Australian farmers wife, starting around the age of 60, had a wonderful 10 years of spending summer in both England and Australia alternately. She managed it all on a very modest widows pension by house and farm sitting in England. She grew up in an arid area in Australia so loved the lush English countryside and its fascinating history which was, to a greater degree then than now, part of the Australian heritage.

I suggest you might be able to have the best of both worlds by establishing yourself in Australia then arranging house swaps with house owners in the UK. Routine life anywhere can become dreary - you were on holiday in Australia and things were probably new and interesting to you so people found you interesting and enjoyable to be with. Having a good change each year or so, which does not empty the bank account too much, might keep you invigorated and prosperous.

I think you are young enough to come to Australia on a working holiday visa. At your age you are right to be in search of an adventure. Emigration implies a long stay so perhaps it would be best to check that that is what you want.

Very sorry to learn that violence affects you so very directly. It is true that most parts of Australia are free of such nastiness - but not all. Some parts of Sydney, often parts where poor immigrants are compelled by finance to live, have a vaguely scary feel about them. There have been some nasty home invasions but special police seem to have dampened that down considerably over the last few years.

I have seen immigrants establish quite successful small businesses "mopping floors" - cleaning offices etc starting with very little capital but you have to be good at business. A tradesmans qualifications and some energy will bring a modest but comfortable lifestyle but, again, to prosper you need to be be in business and good at managing business risks.

Re: Why emigrate?
 

If you end up in Adelaide, you have a walkers treat in front of you. I strongly recommend the Flinders Ranges to the north. Friendly desert mountains which have enough services to make things easy but definitely not crowded. Try a walk through Pitchy Ritchy Pass as a starter - about 200 km north of Adelaide or Wilpena Pound which is a little more remote. The geology is interesting also. The Adelaide Hills also have some nice walks. Just don't do it on stinking hot days - you'll end up as a grease spot on the ground.

Ah, but I bet your definition of scary doesn't scare me at all :p

When I was studying in London the school placed me with a family in Brixton, which is supposed to be violent and scary to Londoners, and it felt safer and nicer to me than the safest neighborhoods here. Of the places I've been to abroad, only the Bronx in NYC and downtown Miami in the US have come even close.

The area I was born in, called Baixada Fluminense in Rio, is considered the 3rd most dangerous location in the WORLD (1st one is Lagos, Nigeria and second is São Paulo, also in Brazil)...

I don't think people would actually pay me to mop anything though, I suck at cleaning. But I do have 11 years work experience in a bunch of things, 3 different degrees and I speak 4 languages. I bet someone will hire me to at least work fast-food :)

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Wake up you are in for a shock , money counts in Australia big time and the biggest sport in Australia is watching TV up to 5 hours a day according to a new poll.
You are all dreaming of a utopia that Australia is not it has the same problems as the UK and less cash to deal with them , plus they make the same mistakes only a few years later .
The Poms are known for whinging and you lot are very good at it , wait until you arrive here it will be never done that in the UK and thats old fashioned we did it this way.
Private education is more sort after here than the UK , standards are very low, interest rates are higher so is tax and cap that by lower wages a land of plenty in deed, it makes you wonder why so many Aussies sod off to the UK to make some dosh?
Heard all this before , remember a lot of Perth is a new but poorly built.

MANY government school buildings are in such poor condition they need bulldozing.

Classrooms at East Hamilton Hill Primary School, built in 1962, have a serious problem with sagging ceilings.

Forrestfield Senior High School has modified its woodwork classes because the building, which is subject to a WorkSafe order, has inadequate dust-extraction equipment.

The roofs of two classroom blocks at Springfield primary in Kallaroo leak and the boys' lavatory block smells because the toilets don't flush properly.

Weld Square Primary in Morley is having major difficulties upgrading buildings with asbestos panels.

Mirrabooka Senior High classrooms have not had a major capital works upgrade since the school was built in 1965, Bassendean Primary has an inadequate drainage system and there are signs of concrete cancer at City Beach Primary.

Rossmoyne Senior High, voted Australia's No. 1 school two years ago, has had an airconditioning unit fall into the staff room.

Veranda ceilings are being propped up.

State School Teachers Union senior vice-president Mike Keely said yesterday the Government would have to bite the bullet and replace up to 100 schools so old and neglected that they were starting to crumble.






:D :cool: :beer: :D :cool: :beer:

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Right PB
Figures in Australia show that the gap between rich and poor is widening. Did you see Current affair last night? The tax office stinging the ordinary investors.


The majority of People here are not rich, there are lot of people living below the poverty margin, debt in this country is sky high. Gambling is a major prob , which I think stems from poverty. we have slums and poverty, and crime here too... but you won't see them on your "place in the sun" tv programmes etc

If people think Australia is any better than the UK on politics, taxes and rich and poor they are in for a sad shock really. It seems to me people have a funny view on Australia, the things which they hate in Britain (minus the weather debate) we have here in Australia too, it's no good running away from those things, tax, politics etc... Australia has the same, some things are actually worse here in this respect.. Have you looked at our government, taxes, laws and their policies here? lol

Drugs and guns are a big prob here... don't even let me start on the gun laws here. You do realise Britain has got tighter laws than Aus on the gun laws. And besides all the recent dramas with guns in the uk in certain areas like Bradford , Birmingham etc... Britain has tighter gun control laws than Australia and America. a lot of people have a gun licence and keep guns in their homes.. Traffic police carry guns here, all police carry guns, there's always cases of police shooting people who are armed with a knife here. There are places in Sydney where gang warfare is rife... illegal guns are a huge prob. See, Australia is not perfect, it has masses of problems same as any western country, some worse , some better.

When I first got here, I was living in Newcastle NSW, the first week I was there I was sitting in a cafe when the bank opposite was held up by armed robbers. Now this town (cardiff) was a small town, not a city, but still armed robbers. Shock to me in my first week. Never had this where I come from in the UK , you may have it in London etc but that's expected, not a small town.

There is no such thing as a perfect country, if anyone finds it... let me know


cheers:)

Re: Why emigrate?
 

people think Uk is bad when unemployment is 3.1% workign conditions have never been so good given the stupid labour / european laws being introduced. average incomes are 30% higher than in Oz.

class in oz is here big time just not in the same way as UK. money is the class here and if you've got it then you will live comfortably. unfortunately most dont and they live a very average existence. public schools are not great, health care costs big time, police are often poorly trained, arogant or even corrupt.

The news / tv stations are totalling run for profit so low cost programmes, loads of imported US shows, poor news coverage. Same with the press - there are only 2 companies that publish everything more or less so no competition and no desire to provide value.

Unemployment is high so work is demanding. Days are longer. Less holiday / benefits. There is always plenty of workers to replace you if you wont do it.

Politics are a joke. The voting system is so complicated nobody understands it. Politicians earn huge salaries and enjoy 5 star pension packages.

People that say they dont go out doors in UK because its cold raining in winter will be the same in Oz in the summer - it will be too hot or you will get burnt. In winter it will be cold and raining.
You can go to the beach but even in Qld for 9 months of the year you cannot swim without a wetsuite as its too cold.

I can understand people getting frustrated with their lives but unless you've got cash this is'nt a great opportunity for anybody. The only advantage is that anybody with a fair bit of cash say $300,000 could move to Brisbane / Perth and buy an average house outright. If you can find a job then even with a lower salary the lack of a mortgage has to be better. But if you hav'nt got the cash I don't see the point of moving here to better yourself. For an adventure. For an experience. Then yes but this is'nt a land of opportunity but unfortunately it suites the Ozzies to make people think it is as they need migrants or more specifically they need your money.

I agree - you've pretty much got it right plus or minus a few idiosyncratic preferences.

A point I would add is that 20-40 years ago Australia was a place where you could make a good quid starting with empty pockets. Commodity prices were high and so was the $AU.

I think that the Australian Immigration marketing message has persisted from that time.

Since then the global economy tipped back in favour of the more industrial countries and Australia has been in a decline economically in proportion.

Also, Australians picked up the European habit of demanding more perks from the gubberment rather than being self reliant. Taxes increased enormously so fewer people could aquire wealth.

Then Australian and foreign businesses discovered that the American science of marketing could not only help them pick the pockets of those that had more money than sense but could also mortgage way into the future the earnings of those who had no cents at all.

However, I suspect that the worm is turning: commodity prices and, to a lesser degree, Australian manufacturing are on a longer term upswing. Probably not as great as some commodity booms but nice none-the-less.

We are not expecting Utopia.

On the odd occasion when the sun shines here the world is a different place. In the summer we would normally pick up the kids from school, go straight down the beach for a few hours and then come back to a BBQ and sit outside over a few beers chatting. Idyllic!

However, we get so little sunshine (didn't even put up the sun shade last summer) that we rarely get to do this. The way I see it, I would rather be in Oz, sat outside next to the BBQ with a cold beer in hand saying "what a crap day I've had, how was yours" to my other half. instead of which I am normally battling my way home in the freezing cold rain, stuck in yet another endless traffic jam and looking forward to nothing more than a hot meal and an evening in front of the t.v.

Steph

Here here Steph

We're hoping to emigrate from the glorious sun drenched West Midlands to Sydney this August, not because we believe everything in Australia is Utopia (far from it, we've been there, read the papers, seen the news, etc), but because I would otherwise always regret not trying.

Like anywhere there will be difficulties and disappointments, but the upside of an outdoor-based lifestyle within a sports-mad culture does it for me.

As for all the debate on relative incomes, wealth, etc - I believe there is a choice - live like an ex-pat and winge about differentials, or live as an Australian and get on with life!

Hi Paul & Steph,

I hear you well. For the last 10 days in Canberra it has been hazy with bush fire smoke and people have been feeling low because the sun shines orange!!! Mind you 4 people killed, 100 injured, 500 homes destroyed is pretty grim.

Today it's clearing and the smiles are back even though we are in the worst recorded drought.

Re: Why emigrate?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pommie bastard
Wake up you are in for a shock , money counts in Australia big time and the biggest sport in Australia is watching TV up to 5 hours a day according to a new poll.
You are all dreaming of a utopia that Australia is not it has the same problems as the UK and less cash to deal with them , plus they make the same mistakes only a few years later .
The Poms are known for whinging and you lot are very good at it , wait until you arrive here it will be never done that in the UK and thats ......................

blaa blaa blaa more PB negativity


I can`t remember the last time I heard PB say anything in a positive light.... aaahh but then I do remember why I added him to my ignore list. Occasionally I read his posts to see if he is any happier with life... but it appears not.

I am not expecting a utopia or a place where everything is rosy and YES I am awake.

My wife summed up our feelings very well at the start of this thread. We are fully aware of the less than positive aspects and in MY opinion they are far out weighted by the positive aspects.

Wolfen

Ah! Wolfen, you are definately barking up the wrong tree if you think PB is going to change :D

All we can do is hope !!!!

Hi Dudley

Hear what you're saying. In a very minor way, the last 2 years have bought severe flooding and storms in our sleepy corner of the UK. Unheard of before! We have had people killed by falling trees and mini tornado's ripping mobile homes in half.

Guess nowhere is perfect.

Steph

Re: Why emigrate?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wolfen
Negative me never I just have yet to find this Utopia that only lives inside of the dreamers heads here , many posts on this question are pointing out that the reality of Austrailia does not match your dreams.
Happy always but bored with Australia yes ,there are positive aspects but in my opinion out weighted by the backwardness of a country at the arse end of nowhere.
All I hear on this site is BBQ, weather and beaches thats all Australia means to you so when it pisses down for weeks on end it whats left?

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Maybe ppl talk about those things cos they are things they would enjoy and they don't get any of them in UK.
And as for it pissing down for weeks on end.....I'm sure ppl can put up with that so long as they can enjoy the other 9 months.

Re: Why emigrate?
 

When we went back to the UK for a holiday the dreaded BBQ was thrown at us , everywhere we stopped with friends and family its a plague world wide.
The Weather is a mind thing I enjoy seasons day after day of baking sun and a brown landscape does sod all for me .
Beaches in Wa are great to look at but lacking in things to do , went Florida they put everything on the beaches including sun loungers and waiter service also things for the kids and adults.
WA has a not in my backyard mentality all beach side devolvement is knocked back thats why people holiday on the Gold Coast , this state has got a lot going for it but is kept back by old money that refuses to move with the times.




:D :cool: :beer:

You banged the nail on the head there - living like an ex-pat in any country will always alienate you from the locals. Make an effort to fit in to the local lifestyle, culture, traditions etc. and soon you will feel more at home. Sadly I think there are a few people on this forum who choose to live like expats in their new country and then complain when things don't work out as they'd like them to, or they get offended for being a called a pom.

Remember, their land, their rules. If you don't join in you'll always be on the sideline.


:beer: :beer:

Re: Why emigrate?
 

Don't know why some think the bbq is "dreaded". It's just another way to cook things - meat, veg, tofu, etc. Rather than get spatters all over the cooktop, or heat up the kitchen with the oven, or have cooking smells throughout the house, or have pans to wash, just put it on the barbie. We had one right outside our kitchen door in Vancouver, under cover of the overhang. Even in pouring rain, we'd frequently barbeque. Some things just taste so much better done that way, especially lamb (marinated first in dijon mustard, garlic, lemon juice, white wine, rosemary and soy sauce). I've tried it in the oven, it's great too but the grill imparts a nicer flavour. Seems less fatty too since most of it drips off.

I agree with you to a point. But I don't like ALL beaches to get like the Gold Coast, Miami or Waikiki. Problem is, how to keep it from getting that way all up and down the coast. It'd be okay in small pockets to have hotels (low-rise preferably), with the beach lounge chairs and waiter service, but not everything. I wouldn't mind more cafes and restaurants where you can sit outside and eat and drink, versus all houses. I'd like to see wider paved boardwalks where more people can walk, cycle, run, rollerblade. Undeveloped, unspoiled beaches are quite popular as more places get spoiled with overdevelopment. Nothing uglier than clumps of tall hotels right on the beach. Just doesn't fit.

And as far as things to do, get off your butt and use your imagination. Seems like you're the "sit back and entertain me" type. Beaches should be about doing stuff. Snorkel, bodyboard, surf, build sandcastles, run along the beach, swim laps, or just bob around like a cork. I'm not a fan of all sorts of entertainment on the beach, since it will all cost money. The beach is nice because of its low cost factor. Start making it like Disneyland and there'll be no low-cost options for parents and kids will get even lazier & useless when it comes to entertaining themselves.

Yeah what's wrong with the odd BBQ or 7 each week? If the weather was better here, everyone would be having one!

Re: Why emigrate?
 

More or less agree with you?! If people want room service on the beach fine, but it's definitely not what I'd go there for. A beach, in my opnion, is for swimming, snorkeling, walking etc. Gold Coast development up and down the west coast would be a nightmare, not to mention the pollution from dozens of huge hotel complexes. It IS nice that there are places left that are not paved over, developed over and fenced off and off limits to the likes of us with a more normal budget. If PB wants entertainment and waiter service on the beach there are still enough places in and around Perth where he can spend some of that hard earned cash the taxman didn't steal off him!!

Sashimi
:cool: :cool:

WE have recently returned from Oz (Sunshine Coast)and we were amazed to find barbacues dotted about the area what a fabulous idea. They were cleaned daily by the council and it was a great way to meet people. We returned to Grimsby near Cleethorpes took a look around and realised just how much of a rut we were in. I could never imagine barbies being set up along the promenade as some moron would come along and abuse it or turn it on and sit a "victim" on it for kicks. The council would never clean them and they would become rendezvous points for druggies as do most of the children's parks in the area. I realise that Oz has it's problems but you have a choice to make and we made ours we need to get out of this hell hole, life is what you make it and we don't like the one we have at this time. We don't expect utopia but just a new beginning if things don't work out then we will rethink. Hopefully we wont become one of those wingeing poms.

Debbie

Ps we love barbie food!!!

Re: Why emigrate?
 

In aussie people probably say
...spending most of your time indoors cos in either too hot or too humid

record Low unemployment, low inflation, low interest rates, 'free' healthare

house prices are increasing so if you are lucky enought to have a house you probably quids in, besides mortgages are the same in aussieland.

most children are in danger from their own family members rather than strangers


More people die in car crashes than train/plane crashes - its official


life is what you make it - it is your outlook that needs amending rather than thinking geography will sort thing out for you