White and Co
Aug 7th 2008, 9:52 pm
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney West
Posts: 69
White and Co
White and Co have just finished packing up our house so I thought I would post to let people know how we found them. It all helps when deciding. Well, I have to say they were fantastic. We had two older gentlemen who took lots of time and care with everything they packed. I never felt the need to watch them like a hawk as evertime I bobbed into a room they were working in, they were carefully packing every item. They even handed me a bank card (out of date) which I had overlooked. They were pleasant and hardworking and I felt quite comfortable in what is a very strange situation. Anyway, all packed up now. We fly on 18th to Adelaide, but then move onto Sydney in a month or two. Staying with my Dad till we go. It's cosy!! lol. Whites charged us £3621 including insurance and storage for up to 8 weeks. Can't fault them so far. Now lets see what we find at the other end!!
Sam
Sam
Aug 7th 2008, 10:27 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46
Re: White and Co
Hi
We used White & Co when we moved to Melbourne from Manchester two years ago. We had no problems at either end and they were the cheapest by far.
Sara
We used White & Co when we moved to Melbourne from Manchester two years ago. We had no problems at either end and they were the cheapest by far.
Sara
Aug 8th 2008, 1:22 am
#3
Banned
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Tapping (Perth)
Posts: 2,619
Re: White and Co
The limited/extended liability cover will only pay out if you can prove that the damage to your goods occured while they where in the possession of the removal company AND that the removal company was negligent.
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident, but it wasn't the lorry driver's fault - you're not covered.
4. If the whole container ship goes down - you're not covered for the loss of your goods nor are you covered for your share of the total loss.
Even if you can actually prove that the damage occurred while your goods were in possession of your removal comapnay AND that they were negligent, the amount of cover is very small.
The upshot is that this kind of "cover" is pretty much worthless.
You can still get insurance through a broker like Letton Percival: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Gina
Aug 8th 2008, 1:30 am
#4
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2007
Location: Back in Blighty
Posts: 1,942
Re: White and Co
We used letton percival. It was easy to arrange and cost effective compared to the type of cover described above. AND we tested it.
We had a number of breakages and damage (including a £800 tv). They paid up no problems, just had to get quotes and or write off letters. Cost of these quotes was covered too. Only downside was having to pay an one off (not per item) excess. Still worth it.
We had a number of breakages and damage (including a £800 tv). They paid up no problems, just had to get quotes and or write off letters. Cost of these quotes was covered too. Only downside was having to pay an one off (not per item) excess. Still worth it.
Aug 8th 2008, 5:28 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney West
Posts: 69
Re: White and Co
White & Co are not licensed to sell insurance. They provide limited/extended liability cover which is not insurance (but they let their clients think it is).
The limited/extended liability cover will only pay out if you can prove that the damage to your goods occured while they where in the possession of the removal company AND that the removal company was negligent.
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident, but it wasn't the lorry driver's fault - you're not covered.
4. If the whole container ship goes down - you're not covered for the loss of your goods nor are you covered for your share of the total loss.
Even if you can actually prove that the damage occurred while your goods were in possession of your removal comapnay AND that they were negligent, the amount of cover is very small.
The upshot is that this kind of "cover" is pretty much worthless.
You can still get insurance through a broker like Letton Percival: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Gina
The limited/extended liability cover will only pay out if you can prove that the damage to your goods occured while they where in the possession of the removal company AND that the removal company was negligent.
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident, but it wasn't the lorry driver's fault - you're not covered.
4. If the whole container ship goes down - you're not covered for the loss of your goods nor are you covered for your share of the total loss.
Even if you can actually prove that the damage occurred while your goods were in possession of your removal comapnay AND that they were negligent, the amount of cover is very small.
The upshot is that this kind of "cover" is pretty much worthless.
You can still get insurance through a broker like Letton Percival: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Gina
Thanks for that information Gina. Will sort something out.
Aug 8th 2008, 9:47 pm
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: From SE Wales to SE Queensland.
Posts: 1,478
Re: White and Co
I couldnt fault their service either that end or this...
Aug 11th 2008, 11:54 am
#7
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney West
Posts: 69
Re: White and Co
White & Co are not licensed to sell insurance. They provide limited/extended liability cover which is not insurance (but they let their clients think it is).
The limited/extended liability cover will only pay out if you can prove that the damage to your goods occured while they where in the possession of the removal company AND that the removal company was negligent.
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident, but it wasn't the lorry driver's fault - you're not covered.
4. If the whole container ship goes down - you're not covered for the loss of your goods nor are you covered for your share of the total loss.
Even if you can actually prove that the damage occurred while your goods were in possession of your removal comapnay AND that they were negligent, the amount of cover is very small.
The upshot is that this kind of "cover" is pretty much worthless.
You can still get insurance through a broker like Letton Percival: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Gina
The limited/extended liability cover will only pay out if you can prove that the damage to your goods occured while they where in the possession of the removal company AND that the removal company was negligent.
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident, but it wasn't the lorry driver's fault - you're not covered.
4. If the whole container ship goes down - you're not covered for the loss of your goods nor are you covered for your share of the total loss.
Even if you can actually prove that the damage occurred while your goods were in possession of your removal comapnay AND that they were negligent, the amount of cover is very small.
The upshot is that this kind of "cover" is pretty much worthless.
You can still get insurance through a broker like Letton Percival: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Gina
Sam
Aug 12th 2008, 12:43 am
#8
Banned
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Tapping (Perth)
Posts: 2,619
Re: White and Co
Just spoken to Whites and they say limited liability is included in their basic quote but the price I mentioned included their standard liability policy through Basil Fry at a cost of 3%, which they assure me covers me for everything from door to door. Glad you mentioned this though as it is definitely worth checking out.
Sam
Sam
Basil Fry are licenced to broker insurance contracts. So you may have now got "proper" insurance. An easy test is whether you paid 5% Insurance Tax Premium (ITP). Have a look on your quote to see if ITP is listed. If it isn't listed, then you didn't pay ITP, then you haven't got insurance.
Letton Percival's insurance premium was 1.6% last year when we used them. You may prefer to ask White & Co to pay you back the 3% for standard liability cover and pay 1.6% for insurance.
I remember when White & Co came round to our house and pretended their quote provided insurance. The guy went very red when I expressed surprise and said that last time I looked they weren't listed in the FSA register ... (I just looked; they are still not registered.)
Draw your own conclusion as to how far you want to trust a company that deliberately misleads its customers on such an important issue. In your shoes I would not believe any "assurance" they've given you but read the quote very carefully, looking for that 5% ITP.
Gina
Aug 14th 2008, 1:09 pm
#9
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Re: White and Co
I have read the comments regarding White and Company's liability offering with great interest. It is only correct and fair that comments made by Gina UK are addressed in order that people can make informed decisions about protection that is offered when moving abroad.
I am qualified to make comments regarding the same. I am a Director of Basil Fry and Company - the only Insurance Broker in the UK who specialises solely in the Removals Industry. We are on the British Association of Removers Insurance Panel and have been providing solutions to the Industry since 1970. We have over 700 clients and our expertise is well known within the sector.
I will deal with Gina UKs comments in turn:-
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered Answer: With any kind of insurance and with standard liability there is a requirement on the part of the claimant to prove that the loss occured. Our claims department settles over 6000 claims annually and proof of damage is easily provided by way of photographs.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered Answer: This is an incorrect statement and should be ignored. If you have selected Standard Liability then cover is in place up to the amount declared on the overseas valuation form.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident.... Answer: If you have requested the standard liability option and paid the appropriate charge then you are covered up to the amount declared on the overseas valuation form. This statement by Gina UK is incorrect
4. If the ship goes down... Answer: You are covered up to the amount declared on the overseas removal valuation form that you have completed
5. The claim is settled in accordance with what is declared on the overseas valuation form. The size of the settlement depends on the accuracy of valuation on the form.
Please take time to read terms and conditions of contract that are given to you by Companies such as White and Co. You will then realise that the comments made by Gina are incorrect. White and Company are not misleading anyone - they are providing full details of the protection that is offered via the terms and conditions of contract. Incidentally, these terms have been checked by the Office of Fair Trading and are deemed to be fair.
If anyone wishes to speak to me about this issue I am available at Basil Fry on 01372 385985. I would be more than happy to help answer any questions.
Greg Wildman
Director
[email protected]
I am qualified to make comments regarding the same. I am a Director of Basil Fry and Company - the only Insurance Broker in the UK who specialises solely in the Removals Industry. We are on the British Association of Removers Insurance Panel and have been providing solutions to the Industry since 1970. We have over 700 clients and our expertise is well known within the sector.
I will deal with Gina UKs comments in turn:-
1. If you can't prove it - you're not covered Answer: With any kind of insurance and with standard liability there is a requirement on the part of the claimant to prove that the loss occured. Our claims department settles over 6000 claims annually and proof of damage is easily provided by way of photographs.
2. If the damage happens on the ship - you're not covered Answer: This is an incorrect statement and should be ignored. If you have selected Standard Liability then cover is in place up to the amount declared on the overseas valuation form.
3. If the damage happens while the removal lorry is involved in an accident.... Answer: If you have requested the standard liability option and paid the appropriate charge then you are covered up to the amount declared on the overseas valuation form. This statement by Gina UK is incorrect
4. If the ship goes down... Answer: You are covered up to the amount declared on the overseas removal valuation form that you have completed
5. The claim is settled in accordance with what is declared on the overseas valuation form. The size of the settlement depends on the accuracy of valuation on the form.
Please take time to read terms and conditions of contract that are given to you by Companies such as White and Co. You will then realise that the comments made by Gina are incorrect. White and Company are not misleading anyone - they are providing full details of the protection that is offered via the terms and conditions of contract. Incidentally, these terms have been checked by the Office of Fair Trading and are deemed to be fair.
If anyone wishes to speak to me about this issue I am available at Basil Fry on 01372 385985. I would be more than happy to help answer any questions.
Greg Wildman
Director
[email protected]
Aug 14th 2008, 8:30 pm
#10
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Back in bonnie Scotland
Posts: 914
Re: White and Co
No I am worried, I have " Export removal overseas liability" ??
Shabee
x
Shabee
x
Aug 15th 2008, 7:23 am
#11
Banned
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Tapping (Perth)
Posts: 2,619
Re: White and Co
you've taken some of my quotes out of context - and thereby making them incorrect.
But I really can't be bothered to go trhough your response point by point.Just two things I would like to add:
White & Co's sales consultants seem to have a habit of telling people that White & Co provides insurance. That is misleading! Standard/limited/ extended liability cover is not insurance.
Whether insurance is better or not than s/l/e cover is a matter of personal opinion.
Yes, you are absolutely correct that White & Co spell out the full details in their terms and conditions. But again, because the sales consultant has said during the home visit that the s/l/e cover is insurance, most customers don't realise that the "cover" they are paying for isn't insurance.
Another overseas removals company that provides both standard and extended liability cover has this sentence at the end of their terms and conditions (after they've spelled what standard and extended liability covers): "Due to new legislation that came into force on 14 th January, 2005 we are unable to provide insurance cover, we cannot recommend an insurer and we are not permitted by the FSA to comment on the suitability of any policy."
Now that's what I call honest. After reading this even the most inexperienced customer should realise that there is a difference between "cover" and insurance.
For anyone reading this and wondering why White & Co sales consultants tell people they provide insurance when they can only provide "cover": They make a tidy profit from the premiums people pay for "cover".
Gina
Aug 15th 2008, 7:34 am
#12
Banned
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Tapping (Perth)
Posts: 2,619
Re: White and Co
have a look at the quote you got from your removal company. The premium for insurance must be listed seperately and the "insurance premium tax" (ITP) must also be listed separately. ITP is 5% of the insurance premium. For example: If the premium was £500, then the ITP would be £25 (5% of £500).
You can also ask your removal company whether they are licenced by the Financial Services Authority to provide insurance. If their answer is "no", then they can't provide insurance nor can they recommend an insurance broker or insurance company or insurance policy.
You can also check whether your removal company is licenced to provide insurance here: www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do
If you type in White & Co you'll find they aren't listed. If you type in John Mason (just as an example) you'll find that they are listed.
A lot of people on this forum have used Letton Percival for insurance: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Hope this helps.
Gina
Aug 15th 2008, 8:04 am
#13
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Re: White and Co
Gina,
I made no comment on how White and Co sell to clients because whilst I know they are an excellent Remover (and this from experience, they have moved our offices on occasion) I have never shipped abroad.
It is true to state that White and Co have an insurance policy that responds for Marine claims subject to the terms and conditions which Whites give you at the time of visiting your property or subsequently when they provide a quotation.
It is quite obvious to me that you have mixed limited liability with standard liability.
Where you refer to "extended liability" - this is actually "standard liability" - the OFT did not like the phrase "extended" so the improved protection whereby you declare a value is "standard" and the restricted version is "limited"
With reference to your comment that I have taken your quotes "out of context" - I cannot see how I have done so given that I referred specifically to them in my response.
We work for non-Regulated and FSA Regulated clients and therefore, I am experienced in providing answers to your comments - the general public has to make up their own minds which to use after asking the necessary questions and referring to the terms and conditions offered by liability removers and key facts/terms and conditions offered by those who hold FSA regulation.
By the way the tax is IPT not ITP - Insurance Premium Tax. Your comments and advice that you are giving out should be received with caution given this extremely basic error and proves that you are addressing this issue with no real insurance experience.
One further comment I would make - if the Remover is providing standard liability cover or an insurance product then any claim reflects upon their claims experience. Where another entity is providing cover the Removers liability (whether they are FSA Regulated or working under liability conditions) is restricted and subrogation is subject to their conditions.
I made no comment on how White and Co sell to clients because whilst I know they are an excellent Remover (and this from experience, they have moved our offices on occasion) I have never shipped abroad.
It is true to state that White and Co have an insurance policy that responds for Marine claims subject to the terms and conditions which Whites give you at the time of visiting your property or subsequently when they provide a quotation.
It is quite obvious to me that you have mixed limited liability with standard liability.
Where you refer to "extended liability" - this is actually "standard liability" - the OFT did not like the phrase "extended" so the improved protection whereby you declare a value is "standard" and the restricted version is "limited"
With reference to your comment that I have taken your quotes "out of context" - I cannot see how I have done so given that I referred specifically to them in my response.
We work for non-Regulated and FSA Regulated clients and therefore, I am experienced in providing answers to your comments - the general public has to make up their own minds which to use after asking the necessary questions and referring to the terms and conditions offered by liability removers and key facts/terms and conditions offered by those who hold FSA regulation.
By the way the tax is IPT not ITP - Insurance Premium Tax. Your comments and advice that you are giving out should be received with caution given this extremely basic error and proves that you are addressing this issue with no real insurance experience.
One further comment I would make - if the Remover is providing standard liability cover or an insurance product then any claim reflects upon their claims experience. Where another entity is providing cover the Removers liability (whether they are FSA Regulated or working under liability conditions) is restricted and subrogation is subject to their conditions.
Aug 15th 2008, 8:51 am
#14
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Back in bonnie Scotland
Posts: 914
Re: White and Co
Shabee,
have a look at the quote you got from your removal company. The premium for insurance must be listed seperately and the "insurance premium tax" (ITP) must also be listed separately. ITP is 5% of the insurance premium. For example: If the premium was £500, then the ITP would be £25 (5% of £500).
You can also ask your removal company whether they are licenced by the Financial Services Authority to provide insurance. If their answer is "no", then they can't provide insurance nor can they recommend an insurance broker or insurance company or insurance policy.
You can also check whether your removal company is licenced to provide insurance here: www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do
If you type in White & Co you'll find they aren't listed. If you type in John Mason (just as an example) you'll find that they are listed.
A lot of people on this forum have used Letton Percival for insurance: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Hope this helps.
Gina
have a look at the quote you got from your removal company. The premium for insurance must be listed seperately and the "insurance premium tax" (ITP) must also be listed separately. ITP is 5% of the insurance premium. For example: If the premium was £500, then the ITP would be £25 (5% of £500).
You can also ask your removal company whether they are licenced by the Financial Services Authority to provide insurance. If their answer is "no", then they can't provide insurance nor can they recommend an insurance broker or insurance company or insurance policy.
You can also check whether your removal company is licenced to provide insurance here: www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do
If you type in White & Co you'll find they aren't listed. If you type in John Mason (just as an example) you'll find that they are listed.
A lot of people on this forum have used Letton Percival for insurance: www.lettonpercival.co.uk
Hope this helps.
Gina
x
Aug 15th 2008, 10:37 am
#15
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: ASHBY, Perth.
Posts: 675
Re: White and Co
I used White & Co for removals and they were great at both ends. I used Letton Percival for my "insurance" as they were cheaper. It cost me £3250 for White & Co with a 20ft container but that was back in September last year. I would recommend them.
Sarah.
Sarah.