What would you really do????
 

:confused: Well after months of umming and aarring, we STILL can't make a decision on where to live, oz v's UK? Both countries have good and bad points. In the UK we both have good, well paid jobs, a nice house, a good school, fab local NHS and we live in an idyllic village in Suffolk. However, we've spent time in oz and, despite its problems, there's 'something' that tells me we should be living there. What we don't want to do is to make the wrong decision and end up regretting it and out of pocket! I've compiled lists of my pro's and cons for both countries!

Likes about the UK

The NHS (its good around here so I won't knock it)
Quality shops/goods at reasonable prices
Englands heritage! (little villages, tudor houses, small cobbled streets etc)
The lushness
The seasons (autum and all those lovely colours)
Pub lunches sat around a cosy fire chatting to friends I've known since I was a child.
Education -free, and again good around here
Low crime (again in this area)
Well paid jobs

Dislikes

Congestion of traffic in towns
'grey' drizzly days that seem to go on forever
Lack of control by the government on immigration
serious crime in other areas
'rudeness of some people' (thats my husbands bug bear)
lack of facilities for families/children

Likes of Oz

Facilities for families/children that are free and well maintained
Spectacular scenery
'outdoor' culture/lifestyle
alfresco dining
'friendly easy going people' (again husbands contribution)
larger housing and being able to build what we want
the unique wildlife
thunderstorms (I know, but they can be amazing)
wide roads

Dislikes

Cost of general living
Education standard
Healthcare costs
Huge telegraph poles everywhere
No fashion sense! (shell suits are definately NOT in!)
Humidity
Lack of decent hairdressers (plus they're expensive)


Think thats about it! So if you had the choice, where would you live????

Re: What would you really do????
 

the other day on here i saw some really good advice. can't remember who but they said they'd been given it as advice and it was the best ever. anyway apologies to that poster but it is worth repeating here.

spend a day imagining you could never go to oz. i would write down how i felt as i went through the day. then do the same, imagining you had to go.

haven't tried it myself because its a few months off for me but i can see i may have to do it soon! at the moment i'm telling myself we are too far in to pull out. i have other advantages in that i have no school age children, loads of family who have been out there 20 years and plenty of support to go.

good luck with your decision. we're in suffolk too and i love my 16th century cottage, the village with no facilities at all and my job. its very hard.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Very tricky...you've lived here so you are well aware of those things which make people decide to up sticks and go home. Why did you leave Aus ? If it was because of those classic factors, it is important to remember that its still the same here, not much has changed ! Nostalgia can be dangerous !

Re: What would you really do????
 

That is good advice, thank you. I think whats making it worst is my other half is a copper in suffolk. He loves his job and doesn't want to give it up, yet he's not guaranteed a place in Qld police? He's already said that if it were a simple case of a transfer then he'd be on the next flight! Life unfortunately, isn't as simple as that! Where in suffolk are you? We're in Stoke by Nayland/Nayland area. I know what you mean, I love my house too - but its going on the market tomorrow!

Re: What would you really do????
 

We left to get our PR visas and the sell the house! In fact we didn't actually want to leave, and, had we had sold the house, we would have stayed in oz `and just gone across to NZ when it was time for the visa to be granted. Coming back made us realise how much we'd taken forgranted. The cool fresh air, country walks in wellies with the kids, shopping in town etc all made us realise what we'd missed. It's a very difficult decision. :confused:

Re: What would you really do????
 

Yes, not at all clear cut, I've been away for a long time and feel close to reaching that all aussied - out stage. The decision then becomes easier. I don't envy you yours. But then again, nothing in this life is forever !

Re: What would you really do????
 

You mean by all aussied out that your ready to return to the UK? An option for us would be for my other half to take a career break, then spend 2 yrs in oz? Problem is, he took a career break last year so we could come to oz? Not sure how the police would react to a second request, foxtrot alpha might well be the response!

Re: What would you really do????
 

With a guaranteed posting to the Sunshine Coast?

Then again, he might get Charleville or Longreach. There aren't too many thatched cottages there. You can die of thirst crossing the road its so far.

Doesn't sound like a great move to me.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Yes, its been over 15 years and I've lived all over and done just about all thats do-able and I think the weather gets hotter as you get older ! Certainly feels like it. The country walks in wellies, preferably to the pub sounds great ! But then, we are all at different stages in our lives and want and need different things. I guess thats why there is such a disparity on this forum at times between those desperate to come out and those who try to paint a realistic picture for them. We all need to do what we think is best for ourselves and our families, and hopefully we learn from the experience and enjoy it along the way.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Dear Annie,
Just an observation....reading between the lines here and on your other posts...it seems your heart is really in the UK after all. Best wishes whatever you decide
txmogga

Re: What would you really do????
 

Forgot to add the walk was on the way back from having a pub lunch with the kids where we got told off for one of the kids burping!!! I am realistic about both countries, in honesty, the UK holds more for the future and opportunity for the children (all want to go to uni, and I cannot imagine how much that would cost in oz for 3 kids)! Looking at my list, the main things you need to get by to live (education, healthcare, cheap groceries etc) are not so good in oz. The weather isn't a particular factor for us as we love the lushness of Britain, so won't complain about the rain - rain isn't always 'bad' weather! I think Banksia's right too, my hubby could be posted anywhere in qld (mount isa???? no thanks) I think its time for serious discussions today, before we take the final step and put the house on the market!

Re: What would you really do????
 

Thank you X. Its such a hard decision and yet again I'm having another sleepless night trying to decide whats best for us. It does come down to finances too. Having that ideal outdoor lifestyle is all very well but can we afford it? I don't want to give everything up just to end up sitting in the sun worrying about money? Yet I can't get 'oz' out of my system!!!! Right off to bed for a couple of hours for me! Thanks everyone XXXX

Re: What would you really do????
 

I agree about the possibility of a "country"posting. I spent a year in the Isa and another in South West Qld too. Just for the experience really as very few aussies have ever visited those areas, let alone lived there. Christmas was definately an experience with the mercury nudging 50 outside and god knows what in the house !

I agree with your comments about the weather. You can spend hours on the Downs, Moors or Fells in the rain and enjoy it. Long periods of time outdoors here (Qld) aren't really feasible and even short ones can be a problem.

Ah cool rain !!!! bring it on !

Re: What would you really do????
 

Hi Annie
Decision time eh:) You are the only one that can decide and it will be very hard I am sure. The area that you live in sounds really lovely and you seem to be really happy there. You will also have to consider your husbands career as maybe they could send him to an area in Qld that you did not want to settle in.

Good luck with your decision.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Hello about finances, my eldest son is going to uni to study law, lots of reasearch later and it is estimated taking every aspect into account that it will cost £10,000 by the time he finishes in three years, as uni education is not totally free here by any means. relatives with children in the same position in oz are looking at around the same amount of money just slightly more, but not enough to decided us against it. As to your feelings my thoughts that I go by, is that I make the right decision for that day and that is the best i can do and don't go with the what ifs, if it feels right today then it proberbly is right, and it sound as if uk is winning at the moment, is there any reason why you cant hold off going to oz (age or such). any way good luck with your decision

Re: What would you really do????
 

I think everybody has already stated that only you could make this decision!

However, if I was in your situation, let me put it this way. You've got the PR visas, you've already been to Brisbane and got an idea of where to live. Keep the house in the UK rented. Stay rented in Australia, Do your two years and get those Australian passports. After that go back to the UK, but at least ALL of your family will be able to easily return to Australia at later times of their lives (if they so wish)! (I'm thinking of children when they're older).

Good luck in whatever you choose.

Nick

Re: What would you really do????
 

People often quote wanting a more 'outdoorsy' life as a reason for emigrating but miss the point that you can have that here in Britain. Putting on wellies and taking the kids and dog for a walk in the fields and woods is one of life's pleasures. It's actually nice when it's a bit cooler.
I sympathise with your predicament as I am in a similar situation. There is nothing wrong with my life here, I would just like a change. My husband says if it ain't broke don't fix it- he doesn't want to go. He wants me to focus on the positive things about living in Britain rather than the negatives.
You should think carefully about giving up secure jobs and a lovely place to live.
Go only if you think you have something to gain.

Re: What would you really do????
 

If by gain - you mean 'financially' it would probably be advisable to stay in the UK however, as a life experience... you've got to go.

That's what I'm doing. I don't expect to be any better off, but if I only make 2 years, at least I can get my aussie passport and return at a later date.


Rob

Re: What would you really do????
 

Do you think it will be cheap for your kids to go to University in the UK then?....I think you need to research that a bit. Will they all get grants ?.......trend now is to leave Uni with lots of debt unless you've got rich parents.

Think of where this country is heading when your kids need jobs.....are they up to being able to cope with lots more applicants for every job from europe ?
If you could live with less debt in Oz with more income available for investment for the future (pension, schooling, kids housing) I know where I'd seriously consider is best.

It's tough and I too am unsure about all this, but I think trends here in the UK aren't great.....and why are you saying Oz schools aren't as good as UK ?,...good and bad all over I think.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Hi GB
Give it a few months yet. Over time your perspectives on each place will probably change. Things you thought you couldn't live without may seem less important and things that annoyed you may become more tolerable.

As for Aus, you could try living in a different area - not all schools are the same - if they were, there wouldn't be the oh-so-desirable catchment areas; Australia isn't full of pylons - look elsewhere; there are stylish and not-so-stylish areas - Melbourne, IMO, has better shopping and fashion than Manchester (and has great hairdressers too); not everywhere in Australia is humid.

I know it is a difficult decision - I am going through it. Many things are a trade off - you know that life in the UK isn't awful so therefore you will always have to trade off something here to gain something over there. Only you can work out whats worth losing and what's not.

But I would put it on the back burner for a few months and focus on UK life, and then look at it all through renewed eyes in a few months. What is your visa status/expiry? Do you need to make decisions now?

Good luck

Re: What would you really do????
 

hiya chuck,

hmmm...decisions decisions!!

As you have made a list, try giving each point a positive or negative mark out of 10...then whichever scores best wins!

seriously though, it must be hard.
Is the Uk looking good because its familiar/what you know? If i was you id go for the 2 years now to get that aussie passport, then you can come and go as you please later if you decide not to stay. me and my other half have agreed this, and even if he hates aus hes willing to stay the 2 years just to give us the option to return later.
as others have said, uni costs a fortune wherever you are - i finished my course 2 years ago with £8K of debt!!!! and i didnt even complete it and graduate!!! If they continue with tuition fee's, you may be better off with the kids at uni in aus! suppose it depends on what they intend to do!

good lcuk with whatever you decide honey.......if it isnt the right decision you still have a couple of years to either return to the uk, or return to aus.

even though we still havent got out there, i feel lucky to have the money and opportunity to at least try it......many people in the world have nothing, not even a roof over thier heads, so i thank my lucky stars and take whatever opportunities in life i can.

sermon over ;)

sue :D :D :D

ps. you have to go back to qld, we have a knees up arranged if im not mistaken........the uk nurses forum :beer: - up!!!

Re: What would you really do????
 

We are doing it to give our kids a better way of life (we hope), especially when they grow up. Living just outside London, is OK, but not much for them to do, no country walks etc, wouldnt take them in the pubs round here for a pub lunch anyway .

So for us i think, regardless of what we might miss, its what we can give them, and by moving to Oz while they are still quite young, they wont know what there is to miss in UK, cos the wouldnt have had it.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Oh you're all sooo wise!!! My heart tells me I should be in oz, my head says the UK. I think tonight I'll sit down with a huge glass of wine (you know the big ones from Ikea) and do some research. Uni will cost us, yet the kids want to go so they can get decent careers, whatever country we're in its gonna cost. i also want the citizenship for the kids as all of them have said when they're 'older' they want to go back. It at least gives them choice (and they wouldn't have to go through as much visa hell as we have). Its whether or not I can convince the other half to take another career break and put oz first? Once we've done 2 years and got it out of our systems then maybe we'll feel more settled. We can put it off until next year no prob, age isn't a prob as we're both young and the kids are only 9, 8 and 5 (yes they know already that they want to go to uni)! And you're right Sue, we have a nurses do to do!!! Husband has suggested landing in perth next time round and travelling via gt ocean rd up the east coast (trust me we've done worst and camped along the way). We'll be in no hurry to find a place to settle so we could take our time. We've already done the renting house out thing in the UK, and it was a mistake!!!! Completely ripped off by letting agents! But, we could put equity in bank account and keep it there until we know what we're doing! Sound good to anyone???

Re: What would you really do????
 

If you're going to do it - do it. Don't let your house out otherwise you'll have a 'way out'. Get cash in the bank and go for it - your kids will thank you for it I bet.

Re: What would you really do????
 

When you say your heart wants to be in Oz and your head wants to be in the UK, its worth remembering that situations can affect what goes on in our head, but what our heart is feeling is rarely clouded.

Get your PR for australia and by doing that, you are giving you and your family a choice for their future.

If any part of you 'belongs' to Australia, then give it the chance to develop.

Good luck.

Re: What would you really do????
 

This is easy for me to say as I have no kids, but given the age of your kids I would suggest not letting the uni factor become too important.
It's going to be nearly 10 years until the oldest is old enough to go, and who knows what might happen before then?
They may end up not wanting to go, or opting for a more practical college course rather than academic uni course.
And don't forget, if they intend to stay in Aus then an Aus college/uni course may be more use to them than a UK one.
As for cost, it's extortinate in the UK anyway. I left 11 years ago and am still paying off my student loan (because I ended up in such a poorly paid profession I could keep deferring my repayments until two years ago!).

And in response to one of your other points, I'd go with your heart not your head. If you ignore your heart you'll always regret it.
Good luck in whatever you decide :)

Re: What would you really do????
 

Hi glittababe!

Well, i would like to add my little point to this thread...

do you have itchy feet? are you seeking a new experience? If you can mentally, physically and financially afford it my answer would be GO GO GO!

There are pros and cons everywhere... my feet are itchy again and i feel that i will be leaving soon! just for a change and a new experience. thats what life sums up for me!

Good luck with whatever you decide!!

fabi

Re: What would you really do????
 

Hi glittababe,

I see your hubby is a copper and is hoping to join the Qld police, it might be worth him trying to contact some expats who have already gone down this road, we have friends in Brissy where the hubby was a copper over here and then joined over there and from what I gather isn't really enjoying it at all. I thinking starting from scratch again after working your way up is really hard and I don't think it was as he expected. A career break would be a good idea if he can get one.

Susan :D

Re: What would you really do????
 

Glittababe,

It seems your having a lot of trouble deciding what to do since we emailed last year. To let you, (and Hubby), know I have an interview with Qld Police next month for entry under the PACE scheme which would mean at least not having to start at the very bottom. To the best of my knowledge the posting situation is not so extreme as it sounds, although you are technically liable to serve in any part of the state my understanding is that they will not move you any great distance form your home as they have to pay removal costs and need to consider your families commitments etc so the chance of being posted to Mt Isa is not so good. But either way I can let you know what happens in March, all things going to plan I should start at the college in Oxley in June.
As for education levels being less than here I was educated at a government secondary college in Melbourne and can say that compared to what Ive seen in sussex the level was much higher in Oz and more people stayed on to finish year 12 than seem to here. So I would not worry about that and you need to remember that private education is subsidised by the government in Oz so is much cheaper than here also.
I too love the same sort of things about England as you seem to but having lived in Oz for over 25 years prior to living here and having the opportunity to bring any children we may have up there or here, then there is no contest Australia wins hands down.

Anyway, thats my two cents worth and I doubt it will help you much but you never know. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Thats great, do keep us posted as Mark's career is the main reason we are having doubts. We had the estate agents over today (3 of them), and will put the house on the market asap. Maybe once the house is sold it'll be final? Let us know how the interview goes. Best wishes annie

Re: What would you really do????
 

Just go!!!
Having lived abroad alot, I think you need to give anywhere at least a year & give it a proper go. If you don't like it, you can always go home. If you don't do it, for the rest of your life, you'll wonder 'what if....?'
Nowhere is perfect. You're always going to miss something, but it sounds to me like normal nerves.
I lived in oz for 6 years & can't wait to get back there (going this year). My personal opinion is that the things you hold most important - health, education etc are better in oz. Sometimes things seem better because they are familiar.
And if you're worried about feeling homesick for cold autumn days in suffolk, there are lots of places in SA & NSW that feel very english in winter - including St Kilda in Melbourne which is just like Felixstowe in suffolk - complete with beach huts, promenade, funfair and docks! That'll cure any homesickness....
One of my best friend's was a copper in oz - he loved it.
Go with your gut feeling and remember that nerves/fear feel very similar to the feeling of excitement....
Good luck!

Re: What would you really do????
 

For many people, having Uni cost the same in Oz as the UK means Oz is considerably more expensive - most people will earn much less in Oz.

Re: What would you really do????
 

... or nothing to lose. Good point.

Re: What would you really do????
 

Glitterbabe,

Confusing isn't it? How long have you been back in the uk? I really feel for you both, it is a tough decision to make especially since you have already done it once.

Maybe the uk is where you are supposed to be, it maybe the fact that subconsiously you wonder if you gave oz a fair go in the first place.

We are heading back to the uk for lots of different reasons, without citizenship but have come to terms with this. I don't think I could personally go through all this again, the day I left my family was the hardest day in my life, I could not put them through it again. To lose us once was enough but twice.....

We probably will be back for holidays even if it is not for a while. We have met some great people here and still have places to see. But, that's it, I don't think it was ment to be and I don't think we will ever be back to live.

Anyway, that's my pennies worth,

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. :)

Mandy

Re: What would you really do????
 

Glittababe,

I remember from one of your previous threads that, because of your dietary
requirements, your weekly food shopping bill in Australia (SE Queensland to
be precise) was $470. Have you taken that into consideration?

Your head and your heart are telling you different things, but you still
need to look at how practical it is for you and for your family. If the
education, health care, and general living expenses are, in your opinion,
much more costly in where you plan to live Oz than where you live in the UK, can you still justify the move for a dream?

Cheers,
Mrs JTL

Re: What would you really do????
 

Well...if something costs the same in Oz as in the UK - eg 10,000 bucks and 10,000 pounds then Oz is cheaper for many, I would say. Careful, not everything.

You may be confusing this simple example with lower salaries in real terms for many other things where you are of course, right. Some private schools in Australia are quite cheap - thousands of dollars per year, rather than thousands of pounds per term when you earn more in dollars than pounds anyhow.

My cost calculation: I earn 3x in dollars what I earnt in pounds. Even in an average job I would earnt 2x. The people earning say GBP17,000 will earn say 28,000-35000 here. The people earning GBP30,000 may earn 60-80k here.
My personal salary factor is three.

Then I look at the cost in dollars compared to pounds. If this cost factor is more the salary factor, then Aussie is more expensive. *Approximately*

So in *some* areas I do believe Australia to be cheaper, for just about anyone.

True, in [many] other areas, Australia ends up more expensive - eg white goods.

The secret is to, of course, forget exchange rates, and look at the purchasing power of your dollar in *every* situation you get in to. It *will* vary. I read of people who have been here years and they still convert using the FX rate.

Badge

Re: What would you really do????
 

Even if you mean, by the "same", that, GBP 10,000 is AUS30,000 then...

Aussie is only more expensive if you are earning less than 3 times in Dollars what you earnt in Pounds. For me I would break even in this situation.

This model is BASIC. You have to take in to account hidden taxes.
And, even, then Valued Added components which may mean you don't care Aussie is more expensive.

ie. everywhere people pay a premium to be in the nice areas, but they don't care.

Badge

Re: What would you really do????
 

I would probably try for the 2 years to get the citizenship, it would be easier for your UK family anyway, if they knew your plan was to try it out and come back if it doesnt work. Your children sound like they are at the age to come back to their UK schools and go from there. We have been happy to rent our house out tho the 1st tennants were a nightmare-they're not all like that tho. I do envy those who can be sure Oz is for them, lock stock but there's good and bad in both places and I for one would want to leave my options open. At least at the end of 2 years you have the citizenship, and you would have given it a go even if you dont emigrate

Re: What would you really do????
 

Yep keep taking it into consideration, the soya milk and products are the problem as they're so expensive there, plus we have to get nut free products for eldest son. Husband is very concerned about the cost of groceries per week. He went on the Woolworths website and did a 'pretend' shop and again it came out at around $400 (and that wasn't including meat). Bulk buying might have to be the answer, or not bothering with milk products at all. Problem is I tried it before I left for oz and my weight dropped to 6st 3 (apparently I looked a 'bit' gaunt)!!! Had the soya stuff in oz and put the stone back on.Not having medibank insurance would reduce our outgoings per mth, but then do you risk it? We're looking at all kinds of cost cutting measures. any ideas?

Re: What would you really do????
 

With regards to missing family and friends, we got quite a mixed reception. My friends are great and have been there the whole time for us, through good and bad, but my family????? They complained like hell when we were in oz, my sister sent video phone messages to me daily with my niece saying "come home aunty annie we miss you" (pulled at the heart strings a bit), but when we did actually get back it was as if we'd stepped off the bus!!!! Ok we weren't expecting a welcoming committee, but a smile and a hug wouldn't have gone a miss! We began to question whether they really had missed us? In fairness the only person I missed was my mum in law, but we got over that with the odd phonecall. We've been back here a couple of months now and my dad who lives 19 miles away hasn't even seen us! I think I can safely say we're not as close as I originally thought!