What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Apr 18th 2009, 1:48 pm
#61
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 68
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
i assume you are referring to the hippocratic oath. it is a common misconception that this oath (or its modern revisions) includes a pledge to treat anyone in need. believing the same as you, i got into an argument with a doctor over this (and a few beers) which led me to go look it up and find the oath says nothing of it.
Apr 18th 2009, 1:57 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
i assume you are referring to the hippocratic oath. it is a common misconception that this oath (or its modern revisions) includes a pledge to treat anyone in need. believing the same as you, i got into an argument with a doctor over this (and a few beers) which led me to go look it up and find the oath says nothing of it.
"will abstain from the seduction of females or males"
I thought that doctors did those things all the time...
http://info.library.unsw.edu.au/biom...craticoath.pdf
I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, Hygeia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this covenant.
Apr 18th 2009, 2:00 pm
#63
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The point of the thread was to illustrate the heartless pricks putting a value on a human life.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
a) treating illigal immigrants who have been hurt in an attempt to enter Australia illigally
b) The fact this has taken up medical resources reserved for the Australian population which is already under pressure
c) the moral dilemma behind the reasons for the illigal immigrants, and what can/should be done about it
That's what posts develop into. Posts become threads made up of different sides of an argument and seen from various perspectives. Everyone has a right to put their slant on it.
If you don't like others opinions it's simple. Don't post
Apr 18th 2009, 2:01 pm
#64
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 68
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The hippocratic oath includes such things as this:
"will abstain from the seduction of females or males"
I thought that doctors did those things all the time...
http://info.library.unsw.edu.au/biom...craticoath.pdf
Hmm, not exactly allowed under Christian religion is it, recognising other Gods ?
"will abstain from the seduction of females or males"
I thought that doctors did those things all the time...
http://info.library.unsw.edu.au/biom...craticoath.pdf
Hmm, not exactly allowed under Christian religion is it, recognising other Gods ?
Apr 18th 2009, 2:06 pm
#65
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Perth, Wait Awhile, Oz
Posts: 122
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The thread is multi faceted. It's about
a) treating illigal immigrants who have been hurt in an attempt to enter Australia illigally
b) The fact this has taken up medical resources reserved for the Australian population which is already under pressure
c) the moral dilemma behind the reasons for the illigal immigrants, and what can/should be done about it
That's what posts develop into. Posts become threads made up of different sides of an argument and seen from various perspectives. Everyone has a right to put their slant on it.
If you don't like others opinions it's simple. Don't post
a) treating illigal immigrants who have been hurt in an attempt to enter Australia illigally
b) The fact this has taken up medical resources reserved for the Australian population which is already under pressure
c) the moral dilemma behind the reasons for the illigal immigrants, and what can/should be done about it
That's what posts develop into. Posts become threads made up of different sides of an argument and seen from various perspectives. Everyone has a right to put their slant on it.
If you don't like others opinions it's simple. Don't post
There has been some complete and utter bollocks posted in this thread and I'm talming facts here.
So I think I won't bother, thanks, but keep showing yourselves up.
Apr 18th 2009, 2:09 pm
#66
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
See ya
Apr 18th 2009, 2:19 pm
#67
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 743
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The reason for this is a number of nations are not signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees which was conducted after World War 2 when a lot of developing world countries had yet to gain independence from their colonal masters so played no part in the original pact which at the time was looking at finding homes for the massive number of stateless people as a result of the recently finished war.
Get real 
Apr 18th 2009, 2:26 pm
#69
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Why can they not be treated, and then returned by plane to the country they came from, in the same way people who try to get into a country with forged documents, who are discovered, have to be. Sure, there is a cost for the flights, but it's a lot less.
And, the person gets a nice flight back to their country.
They know what they are doing is illegal and they hope things work out. That's their choice.
What we do not know is how many other boats landed here on a beach one night and dropped off 30 or 40 or xx number of illegals and they are now roaming the country...
I'd guess for every boat we know about, there are 5-10 that we do not...
And, the person gets a nice flight back to their country.
They know what they are doing is illegal and they hope things work out. That's their choice.
What we do not know is how many other boats landed here on a beach one night and dropped off 30 or 40 or xx number of illegals and they are now roaming the country...
I'd guess for every boat we know about, there are 5-10 that we do not...
As for a nice flight back to their country well this happens on a regualar basis but once deemed to have refugee status they can not be removed under internatioal law.
Instead of putting blame on people better targeting the law as it stands which can be argued needs reforming to take into account how the times have changed since the original draft was passed.
Apr 18th 2009, 2:33 pm
#70
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Perth, Wait Awhile, Oz
Posts: 122
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Apr 18th 2009, 2:37 pm
#71
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 743
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Do not think boat loads of potential refugees could remain undetected for long without either perishing oe being discovered it is not like they would exactly blend in with local enviroment.
As for a nice flight back to their country well this happens on a regualar basis but once deemed to have refugee status they can not be removed under internatioal law.
Instead of putting blame on people better targeting the law as it stands which can be argued needs reforming to take into account how the times have changed since the original draft was passed.
As for a nice flight back to their country well this happens on a regualar basis but once deemed to have refugee status they can not be removed under internatioal law.
Instead of putting blame on people better targeting the law as it stands which can be argued needs reforming to take into account how the times have changed since the original draft was passed.
Why would they perish ? So if they don't blend in, tell me what do they look like ? Is there a standard dress code for refugees 
Apr 18th 2009, 2:43 pm
#72
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
Very few people would dispute the desperation illegal immigrants feel when they put their lives at risk to make an illegal entry into any country. The point is, whilst every country would like to take in every person who is desperate unfortunately this is not possible. There are legal entry rules to follow otherwise we may just as well open up to everyone, and as much as this is idealistic it's not realistic.
Nothing to do with idealism and if or not the present law as stands is realistic then i would have to say no..obviously it can not continue in the form it now is as it under mines a lot of what it was set out to achieve.
Countries in Europe can not be expected to absorb many tens of thousands of refugees that are flooding onto Spanish and Italian and others beaches.
The solution can only be found by adapting international law to enable it to respond to 21st century problems.
Apr 18th 2009, 2:52 pm
#73
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,397
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The point of the thread was to illustrate the heartless pricks putting a value on a human life.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
It's priced every day: by insurance companies, by claims courts and by health spending. We may not like it - it's not cuddly, feely, but it's reality.
If you say that you can't put an upper value on a life then I hope I don't insure my car or house with your company if it follows that principle!
Imagine the financial situation if every sick elderly patient was given every life-continuing machine available, regardless of cost. It doesn't sound fair, it probably isn't, but in the real world there are not unlimited resources and so human life *does* have a price.
Yours, a prick.
Apr 18th 2009, 2:57 pm
#74
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
I wish that the health organisations were a lot *more* judgemental.
I don't know about WA, but here in NSW the health services are near collapse, with low morale, inability to get trained doctors in anywhere but the major cities, nurses on occasion buying standard equipment out of their own pockets, suppliers not being paid for months on end (and in some cases going bust because of it) and deteriorating hospitals.
Yet the emergency units spend a considerable proportion of their time tending to addicts and alcoholics as well as a stream of semiconcious teenagers who vomit their loads of alcohol over the floor. Many are serial "customers".
It would be nice and cuddly to imagine that everyone has to "be given a chance" but the reality is that there are always going to be financial constraints and it sickens me to see the way that ordinary, hardworking people with limited funds have to put up with long waiting lists and decrepit facilities when so much money is thrown at selfabusers.
Society needs to grow up and realise that the "community" cannot take responsibility for anyone who can't accept it him/herself.
I don't know about WA, but here in NSW the health services are near collapse, with low morale, inability to get trained doctors in anywhere but the major cities, nurses on occasion buying standard equipment out of their own pockets, suppliers not being paid for months on end (and in some cases going bust because of it) and deteriorating hospitals.
Yet the emergency units spend a considerable proportion of their time tending to addicts and alcoholics as well as a stream of semiconcious teenagers who vomit their loads of alcohol over the floor. Many are serial "customers".
It would be nice and cuddly to imagine that everyone has to "be given a chance" but the reality is that there are always going to be financial constraints and it sickens me to see the way that ordinary, hardworking people with limited funds have to put up with long waiting lists and decrepit facilities when so much money is thrown at selfabusers.
Society needs to grow up and realise that the "community" cannot take responsibility for anyone who can't accept it him/herself.
One issue with this arguement is where do you draw the line and who so to speak plays god.
Ofcourse we could cull the disabled,mentally ill,unemployed, drug users,allow smokers and consumers of alcohol to die if it is judged they become ill through their own behavior..what about workaholics while we are at it when they get a heart attack, self induced surely?
Wonder what you consider makes as human..not purely ecconomic consumers?
Apr 18th 2009, 3:08 pm
#75
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: What has happened to humanity - Afghan Refugees, Perth?
The point of the thread was to illustrate the heartless pricks putting a value on a human life.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
As I said in the original post, treat them and let DIMA sort them out, it WAS NOT about illegal immigration.
If that turns me into a "bleeding heart PC brigade person" then fine.
This thread has shown several people up for what they are.
