What happens to our children if we die?
Mar 26th 2010, 12:10 pm
#16
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
We have a letter of wishes attached to our wills that states very clearly that we do not want our child going into care in anyway shape or form - it brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it while I type this. Bloody awful. It states that he should live with someone he knows until the will matters are sorted through.
It also states that if our son is at an age that he can reasonably voice his own wishes that those should also be taken into account.
It is a hellish thing to think about.
It also states that if our son is at an age that he can reasonably voice his own wishes that those should also be taken into account.
It is a hellish thing to think about.
Mar 26th 2010, 12:31 pm
#17
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
It will be heard in a court of law. Regardless of SS.
Mar 26th 2010, 12:33 pm
#18
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
I think they would but the first night could be a problem, they're not likely to produce the will within minutes of the death.
Mar 26th 2010, 12:33 pm
#19
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
) if she wasn't. Oh do I really have to look into this? I don't want to 
Mar 27th 2010, 12:49 am
#21
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
Agree its a horrid thought but it is something we all need to consider 
Im still with the head in the sand brigade but think i will have the conversation with my ex who is currently visiting from UK.
My daughter will be 18 in Jan 2011 so i have to stay on the perch until at least then - they would be devastated at having to go back to UK. Having said that my eldest who is still living in the UK has his PR visa valid until 2012 so I kinda hope i got all options covered. I still think maybe the discussion needs having and it all puttin into writing 
Have a safe and happy weekend everyone LOL
Im still with the head in the sand brigade but think i will have the conversation with my ex who is currently visiting from UK.
My daughter will be 18 in Jan 2011 so i have to stay on the perch until at least then - they would be devastated at having to go back to UK. Having said that my eldest who is still living in the UK has his PR visa valid until 2012 so I kinda hope i got all options covered.
I still think maybe the discussion needs having and it all puttin into writing Have a safe and happy weekend everyone LOL
Mar 27th 2010, 1:10 am
#22
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
It's one of those questions that come up regularly and makes us all think and then we go back to burying our heads in the sand because it won't happen to us, will it. 
From reading stuff in the past, if the children are citizens, then there can be special dispensation for the grandparents or whoever is named legal guardian to get a visa, generally though I would imagine the children would go back to the UK.
If you don't make definite plans for what happens to the children between the time you die and the guardians arrive, the children would be put in the care of the social services - short term foster parents trained for the task I would imagine.
If you have a friend here you would trust with your children then I would ask her if she would do this, then have something drawn up legally that she would keep, the school/kindy/whatever would have their number as third emergency number etc. She would then be able to produce the document immediately she finds out about your deaths.
I'm not sure if the UK guardians would be able to get special dispensation for visas if the children are PR, you'd probably have to check with a migration agent on that one. Yours are only little though I think, so probably a move back to the UK would be best. They'd have to move back for a while even if the guardians did want to live here.
Just remembered, there is something on the DIAC site, I'll try and find it.
Edit: No, I think I was thinking of the 116 which is for parents or family members who need a permanent visa to come out to act as carers for PR or citizens but you have to prove the medical side, it's not carers as in looking after healthy children. I should imagine though, it would be something like that visa they would need to get.
From reading stuff in the past, if the children are citizens, then there can be special dispensation for the grandparents or whoever is named legal guardian to get a visa, generally though I would imagine the children would go back to the UK.
If you don't make definite plans for what happens to the children between the time you die and the guardians arrive, the children would be put in the care of the social services - short term foster parents trained for the task I would imagine.
If you have a friend here you would trust with your children then I would ask her if she would do this, then have something drawn up legally that she would keep, the school/kindy/whatever would have their number as third emergency number etc. She would then be able to produce the document immediately she finds out about your deaths.
I'm not sure if the UK guardians would be able to get special dispensation for visas if the children are PR, you'd probably have to check with a migration agent on that one. Yours are only little though I think, so probably a move back to the UK would be best. They'd have to move back for a while even if the guardians did want to live here.
Just remembered, there is something on the DIAC site, I'll try and find it.
Edit: No, I think I was thinking of the 116 which is for parents or family members who need a permanent visa to come out to act as carers for PR or citizens but you have to prove the medical side, it's not carers as in looking after healthy children. I should imagine though, it would be something like that visa they would need to get.
It's called Ministerial Intervention (section 351 for non-refugee cases):
http://www.immi.gov.au/refugee/minis...tervention.htm
http://www.iarc.asn.au/publications/...inisterial.pdf
Not an easy process. First you have to be able to make a valid application for a visa which carries MRT review rights, then after MRT refusal, you can appeal to the Minister for what is a personal discretion.
There are broad policies underlying it, but one of the purposes is to deal with unusual, exceptional cases. I would think that if there were Australian citizen children left without guardians and foreign relatives were identified as the appropriate guardians for such children, ministerial intervention might work. But cases like this are highly fact dependent.
If children are PR, the process could still be attempted, but it becomes harder. Children have a more secure status in Australia if they are citizens.
If child is older, say 16+, then child may be able to live relatively independently.
To manage this risk you should do the following:
1. Discuss with family law practitioner in state of residence what normally happens in such instances, and what documentation can be put in place to influence the process;
2. Make sure you have plenty of life insurance to deal with the eventuality. Life insurance is normally cheap provided you only pay for the cover you need - which is usually the time until your children pass university age. (don't waste money on policies that last a lifetime, or which mix up savings and insurance).
And as someone else says, it helps if you have trusted friends in Australia, who even if they can't or don't want to look after the children full time, could do so temporarily and/or act as an advocate for the child.
Usually, car accidents are the reason for both parents to die simultaneously. One way to manage this risk is to travel in different vehicles.
Mar 27th 2010, 8:13 am
#23
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
No, they don't get to look after the younger siblings automatically. The 18-year old needs to make a guardianship application to be appointed legal guardian over the younger siblings. The court then involves Social Services who assess whether the 18-year old is the right person to be a guardian.
Mar 27th 2010, 8:21 am
#24
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
No, they don't get to look after the younger siblings automatically. The 18-year old needs to make a guardianship application to be appointed legal guardian over the younger siblings. The court then involves Social Services who assess whether the 18-year old is the right person to be a guardian.
Mar 27th 2010, 8:34 am
#25
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
When we came over, our eldest was 18 and his younger brothers were 16 an 12. We made a will here (and in the UK to be sure) saying that we wanted him to have guardianship of his brothers, I also have an elderly (but very capable) aunt in Adelaide that agreed to help him as needed, we laid all this in our wills as we didn't want the boys to be forced to return to the UK if the didn't want to and we wanted to make sure that they could stay together. Now our youngest is nearly 17, but if anything happens his brothers will have legal guardianship until he turns 18. It gave us and our sons who know of the wills obviously peace of mind that they would be able to stay together and stay here. We have also made sure we have plenty of life cover for them if anything happens, so that they continue to have a home and an income.
Last edited by Smartinis; Mar 27th 2010 at 8:36 am.
Mar 27th 2010, 11:43 am
#26
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
When we came over, our eldest was 18 and his younger brothers were 16 an 12. We made a will here (and in the UK to be sure) saying that we wanted him to have guardianship of his brothers, I also have an elderly (but very capable) aunt in Adelaide that agreed to help him as needed, we laid all this in our wills as we didn't want the boys to be forced to return to the UK if the didn't want to and we wanted to make sure that they could stay together. Now our youngest is nearly 17, but if anything happens his brothers will have legal guardianship until he turns 18. It gave us and our sons who know of the wills obviously peace of mind that they would be able to stay together and stay here. We have also made sure we have plenty of life cover for them if anything happens, so that they continue to have a home and an income.
Mar 27th 2010, 1:46 pm
#27
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
With respect, you need to be having this discussion with a family law practitioner in your state of residence, not an online forum.
Mar 27th 2010, 1:59 pm
#28
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
Yes I now realise this but I have to confess I hadn't given it much thought until I read the thread! Head in the sand like other people have mentioned!! I'll get onto it!!
Mar 27th 2010, 10:46 pm
#29
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
Good post, I appreciate as JAJ says that it is something that needs to be discussed with a qualified advisor but it is good to be reminded of this. We have been here for nearly 2 years now and have forgotten or put off doing anything about it.
We don't have family here, and I can't think of anyone we know well enough to ask them to be temporary guardians either (and it's an awful thought to think they would have to go into care for a few days at such an terrible time) but at least we need to think very hard about who should be their guardians in the UK and make this all legal in a will. As we don't have many close relatives in the UK this won't be easy but needs to be done.
In the meantime, maybe we need a second car so we don't ever travel together
Sam
We don't have family here, and I can't think of anyone we know well enough to ask them to be temporary guardians either (and it's an awful thought to think they would have to go into care for a few days at such an terrible time) but at least we need to think very hard about who should be their guardians in the UK and make this all legal in a will. As we don't have many close relatives in the UK this won't be easy but needs to be done.
In the meantime, maybe we need a second car so we don't ever travel together
Sam
Mar 27th 2010, 11:55 pm
#30
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Re: What happens to our children if we die?
Good post, I appreciate as JAJ says that it is something that needs to be discussed with a qualified advisor but it is good to be reminded of this. We have been here for nearly 2 years now and have forgotten or put off doing anything about it.
We don't have family here, and I can't think of anyone we know well enough to ask them to be temporary guardians either (and it's an awful thought to think they would have to go into care for a few days at such an terrible time) but at least we need to think very hard about who should be their guardians in the UK and make this all legal in a will. As we don't have many close relatives in the UK this won't be easy but needs to be done.
We don't have family here, and I can't think of anyone we know well enough to ask them to be temporary guardians either (and it's an awful thought to think they would have to go into care for a few days at such an terrible time) but at least we need to think very hard about who should be their guardians in the UK and make this all legal in a will. As we don't have many close relatives in the UK this won't be easy but needs to be done.
As permanent residents (if they are PR), the children would not be automatically thrown out of the country but it would get complicated if relatives in the UK tried to claim them and you had left nothing to the contrary in writing.