kiwi_child

Actually Hutch, Exile's comments are correct. And, opinion is usually based on someone's experiences and therefore factual in base.

fnord

Based on fact or not, the important thing is that opinion may be right or wrong. It's an information-based assumption. E.g. "Australia is too f**king hot".

Fact is a piece of information presented as having objective reality, something that has actual existence. E.g. "According to the BOM, it got up to 40.8 degrees in Melbourne this January"

So I think Hutch is right, but that's just my opinion

Hutch

There's this perception that anyone who argues the toss with someone saying something 'negative' is only doing so because they think Oz is utopia and have some sort of vested interest in selling an idealised notion of society here. Just because loads of people high-five the OP, drop 'em some karma loving or reply that a thread is 'spot on', doesn't make it any more true - just means that they agree with the OP's opinion. Ultimately, whether we want to or not, we all fall into little cliques here - it's just that due to the very real nature of shifting your life round the planet, the views are that much more polarised.

BadgeIsBack

I took your point in the right way- and the sagacity of it did not go unnoticed.

I was actually moved to post by Tracey's post who I admired, infact I admire everyone who says that what she said and I said so. She admitted reading the posts and dismissed them, thinking it wouldn't happen to them. And I guess it did.

I can tell you now, I'd be feeling pretty embarassed so I admire that. I only quoted your post because it summarised that caution and situation.

NKSK version 2

Great word!!

I'm going to use this tomorrow at school to impress the kids!!

Mumof1

Like I said earlier, I have found it useful to read both sets of posts, but I wouldn't make any decision that would change my family's lives on the basis of another persons opinion...that is common sense, and hopefully anyone who has the ability to consider making a move this huge would be able to form their own conclusions based on a much wider base of research. However the final point made here is one that I have found both people in this forum, AS WELL AS in the MBTTUK forum have made to me when I have posed my questions. YOU won't know if YOU don't try, so I would still support looking in both, it gives a more objective opinion base, as long as people don't make their choices purely by looking through forums!! This site is a fantastic resource as I'v discovered this week, but there is always more to see.
Well done, and thank you to everyone who posts on here! I'm finding it brilliant!!

BadgeIsBack

Have to agree, have to agree. I think this is true. Frankly this is the only bone of ''contention'' I have with anyone 'negative' on this site - the fact that having fallen into a ''camp'' of some sort with a known position at times - in my case a sort of positivism mixed in with a sort of pragmatic realism - means you must be disillusioned. Do I protest too much? Probably! I think Hutch represents my school of thought and he might agree with some of what I've learnt in a few years of reading and posting:

i)iIt's really not a bad place to be
ii)there's loads of things wrong, some/most of which are just as bad elsewhere
iii) some of which (a minority I believe) are peculiarly Australian in some shape or form
iv) that moving here can be a step up
v) a bit of luck is involved
vi) that some people are unfortunately actually pre-disposed to probably find it not to their liking. Oh yes...
vii) There is more to every expat than meets the eye, but not always
viii) That for every myth about Australia there is a reality
ix) Some of these myths are actually true and make it a fun country to live in
x) Some of the realities do not necessarily distract from the experience(depending on your opinion)
xi) Some people seem more practical than others, there are fools, there are geniuses.
xii) Bitter, or angry, or dissillusioned people can get quite nasty
xiii) Bitter, or angry, or dissillusioned people can blame everybody but themselves
xiv) Some people want to peddle a line in Australia's problems and it's often nothing more than a sort of liberal, humanitarian stance and a geunine interest in the welfare of others.
xv) Some people want to peddle a line in Australia's problems because it has really effected them
xvi) Having said that, most people seem to see both sides
....

but most of all, it's unfortunate and irratating agreeing with someone who happens to be in your camp because it smacks of bias.

eg .How I laugh when we can count on Kiwichild to disagree with Hutch (etc etc) !!!!!

cresta57

Oooh another thread about the negatives.
Unfortunately I've been here long enough to have lost touch with how desolate and full of immigrants my birth country has become since my departure, yet not long enough for me to say anything derogatory about my chosen domicile.

FWIW I've had a pretty hard time over the last four years, it wasn't an easy decision to come here as I really had an easy life in the U.K. I came to spend time with my folks, precious time that we thought would be measured in months not yrs. Hey ho Big G deals the old man a trump card and up and away he's gone back on the ocean waves. I'll miss them but not enough to go back to Blighty [yet] Deb & I have built up a decent business as we needed to work to pay our way it's going well and life is sweet at the moment.
I don't regret for a moment coming and even though I work 10 times harder than I ever did in the U.K. I also play 10 times harder. Wild horses couldn't drag me back now as this is where my family are happiest.
I used to read the negatives by those aforementioned posters and Polly is right; In amongst all the bitterness and vitriol of their posts were some excellent pearls of wisdom. Trolling through the dross was just not worth it for most.
One thing is for sure though, through this site I've made some fantastic mates, I've no doubt made some enemies, such is life, we all say things on here that I'm sure if we were sitting around talking over a few beers we'd never have said or maybe never have said so rudely or harshly.............

EDIT:
PS
Badge, "sagacity" word of the week mate, karma just for getting that one into a post

BadgeIsBack

You walked in to a trap there, I can tell you.

I refer you to my point - there is more to some of us than you realise. It is precisely that we can apply ourselves to a bit of rationalisation that we have succeeded in the first place - we've sussed things out when others are losing their heads...(!) As such very few things phase us..

I've had several careers, done well in them all, (not just sat around on PCs all day either - I've had to forge mind, body and spirit - I can't say it any other way(!) led people, motivated people, stood up in front of people that count not just dreary old business players..). My wife has just had our second baby, I've bathed the eldest, put her to bed, then left at 9.30pm to run 3 times up the hill in the dark with a 20kg rucksack in full structural gear, come back lifted weights, and then logged on after a full's day work to rest in between sets.

I could be at a major house fire in 20 minutes, tomorrow night I might be enjoying the company of some fantastic mates we have met here all are great people.

Some of us are just plain clever.

aston man

can i just stick my little cherry in and then im off again...

tracey has been a fantastic help to me and my lot..shes managed to keep our feet on the ground...

thanks for that..

the astons

BadgeIsBack

I regret that. I do infrequently post on the MBUK forum but recently often to agree with someone. I'm aware that a positive like me would be greeted with suspicion, but there is plenty of crossflow.

Frankly the titles of the sub forum, are in a way meaningless(!!) We all want a piece of the action I suppose. It is a debating forum too.

MartinLuther

Negativity can be good.

I thought the supermarkets were all going to be cr*p (worse than France). Turns out that they're okay. Not as flash as Tescos but certainly useable.

I though that the streets would be filled with Hoons. Turns out that there's less hoons where I live than joy-riders where I used to live.

etc...

The one negative that persists is the distance from relatives. I had planned to visit the UK about every 3 years. Turns out that I resent spending so much on these trips when it could be used for visiting SE Asia, Pacific Islands and other parts of Aus.

Bix

Aint that the truth.

Buzzy--Bee

We are on the cusp of emigrating, we are walking in to this with our eyes wide open, not least because we have done it before.

I don't read MBTTUK any more. At this time I don't need the negativity. I am aware of it, just don't want it in my face.

Buzzy

DagBoy

G'Day Badge - how's it going mate?

I cannot be bothered to read through 3 pages of replies, so I will just answer your points.

When I found expats I had already been here for more than 2 years and one of the things that made me actually join and start posting was the posts from people like Pommie Bastard and Dotty and Ceri. They were so very obviously living in some parallel universe in some other Australia - some of the sh*t they spouted as truth was just plain wrong. I started pointing out the errors and the standard response was patronising and condescending - usually along the lines of "You are still new here, wait till you have been here more than 6 months, then you will see I am right."
So I would repond "But I have been here 2 years and I have never experienced the things you are talking about ..."
And they would ignore me

Since then, in almost 4 years (and over 1000 posts) I have tried to be balanced in my posts. I do not doubt that some people find it hard missing family and friends, but not me. I do not doubt that some people find it hard missing the familiarity of Tescos and M&S knickers and Next, but not me. I do not doubt that many people struggle with finding a job and being paid a lower relative wage and having a higher relative cost of living, but not me. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one, so for each negative poster on the forum, there is probably a positive poster out here living their life and too busy to post that much.

As for your specifics:

1) What did you think when you read them? Did being here help?
I was here, it helped, I read them and thought they were sad, bitter, failures and had missed the whole point that Australia is a different country.

2) Do people think they just got lucky?
I was (and am) very lucky. Lucky to have worked hard in my industry and in my job in the UK, so that my skills and experience were of value to the company in Australia so that they would arrange a transfer. Lucky that it only took me 18 months to sell my UK house so we could buy a place here. Lucky that MrsD already had a place in Loganlea, so I could see what it was like to live in a suburb where having a job, but no tattoo marked me out as special. Lucky to experience breakins and car theft and squatters and threats of physical violence. Lucky to buy a house that was later bought by developers, lucky to live in a good suburb, lucky to have a 4 day a week job. Lucky to survive 3 rounds of redundancies, lucky to be in demand in my job with a number of our major customers, lucky to have the kids in a good school. Yes, I have been lucky, but some of that luck was of my own making.

3) Do people feel that all these cautionary tales could have applied to them
if they were in a different job/town/state?
I like to think that Iwould have done alright anywhere, but then I am an optimist.

4) Do people feel it really is all personal taste (as always)?
Largely. A lot of what some people seem to really care about is worth nothing to me.

5) Do some people mitigate the problems better than others?
Yes. Positive, optimistic people. I could recount things that have happened to me in the style of Arkon and it would seem that this place is cursed and I am destined to be miserable forever, but I don't.

6) Do some people give up?
Yes. But some people don't.

Cheers,

DagBoy