NKSK version 2

I accept that but to dismiss the information being provided as of little use to parents is I think wrong. In organisations as complex as schools, there is no way that a few numbers can give you the whole picture and predict how your child will perform. But by reading beyond the simplicity of those numbers (also considering percentage of free school meals, discipline policy etc) parents do get an indication of the quality of teaching in any school.

The data has been produced for over 10 years now. If the data was of no use at all, parents and newspapers would have disregarded it.

NKSK version 2

What unknowns?

esperanza

All the variables that are continuously changing within a school system and may not be public knowledge, and which are likely to change year on year.
EG English results may drop a few percent one year because of a teacher being ill and off for a few months, two new teachers, extra pressure for the dept to focus on KS3 for a whole school policy, attention focused on other subjects because they were especially bad the year before.... none of that would be apparent from a subject by subject break down of the school's exam results for the year, and rightly so as it all might not be applicable the following year.

hantsfamily1

Typical English kids are not exactly well behaved polite young people so I think that respect and good manners are important as well as education. Parents should have a little think about what they have taught their own children each day instead of always relying on what one teacher can do with 30 children.

Gibbo

Gaelic ( long "a") was the language of Highland Scots. Lowland Scots is a language in its own right and that is what I was refering to. If you look at your English dictionary you will find words from Scots which have been accepted into the English language have their derivation given as Scots. Unfortunately, pure Scots is neither spoken or written anymore. (To the best of my knowledge.) Too many English words are in common use.

NKSK version 2

But...(partly playing devil's advocate here)...

1. Parents and other stakeholders won't take just one year's results to make decisions about a school. This is why most media give 2 or 3 years of data - to identify trends. So anomalous situations like you've suggested above are less important.

2. We all know that some schools are managed better than others. So in the situations which you have described, some schools will better manage a long term illness and some schools won't allow some subjects to suffer at the expense of others. And some badly managed ones will be disastrous. It's all part of good teaching and learning (and management).

3. I would have thought that most parents are more interested in the overall indicators - e.g %A-C rather than individual subject scores. So even if one subject in one year slips, other subjects might ahve benefited hence no overall negative impact.

ACE

Yes, quite a few schools have T & G programs. You need to contact the schools in the areas that you are interested in and ask them. A friend of ours moved out with their son who had just gained one of the highest marks in the county to gain a place at grammar school in the UK. He now attends a state high school here in WA and is following the school's G & T program. His mum, who is a teacher, says that he is thriving, being fully challenged and developed at school and is very happy.

ACE

Spot on, I couldn't agree more.

ACE

No

ACE

This was also the view taken by our English professor when I was doing my Post Grad Cert Ed a couple of years ago. He even went so far as to suggest that people writing as they speak on a Saturday morning at Romford market should be and he felt in time would be as acceptable as 'Standard English' Like your dad says Hutch our prof felt it was all about English being a 'living Language' constantly influenced by slang, Americanisms, Australianism, technology etc

NKSK version 2

But does that mean it's acceptable now to a wider audience?

ACE

No, not in my opinion. It is an interesting concept but a bit too rad for an oldie like me.

Gibbo

I think that you will find, in NSW at least, they teach Australian English. The "wh" sound for instance is virtually nonexistent. Many words which are considered homophones in Australia would not be in standard English. This, in my opinion, gives rise to the difficulties which some children have spelling simple words. The dictionary used is the Macquarie Dictionary, not the Oxford or Cambridge versions. I could cite many other differences but to be honest I can't be bothered.

ACE

I must say this really is an excellent thread. Intelligent, well argued opposing opinions with no sniping or nastiness.

Inspections are an important part of the UK education system but the judgment of the individual teachers ability, and therefore the overall quality of teaching, is often based on an observation of part of a single lesson. Having a bad day or an off lesson can result in a teacher being rated as unsatisfactory. This is what happened in my school in the UK and I saw some very talented, wonderful teachers unfairly rated as just 'satisfactory' and 'unsatisfactory' during our Ofsted inspection. Having said that I can definitely appreciate the importance of regulation and monitoring but I don't know if the short time that Ofsted spend in the classroom really gives a true picture of teaching standards. Certainly based on our Ofsted inspection last year they spend most of the time with the headteacher and subject leaders looking at data. I believe very strongly in 'the proof of the pudding..' and all that, parent satisfaction, school ethos and child perception and happiness are important factors in what I consider to be a good school. These factors are now also recorded in Ofsted reports along with the teaching standards and attaiment figures.

Trying to find the right school for your children in Oz while you are still in the UK is maddening. We took the view that we would try the local school and if we weren't happy with it we would move him knowing that he was ahead anyway and wouldn't fall behind.

My son spent years in a very good private school in the UK. This particular school had an outstanding academic history, fantastic facilities, great teachers, an impressive old boys list and an outstanding sporting record. Our lad made good progress, he always had stacks of homework, he was and still is well spoken and polite, was academically way ahead of the 9/10 year olds in my school but he was very quite and reserved and didn't seem particularly happy. OK his experience is a little extreme but even at my school the children were being constantly pushed to the next level when a lot of them were not ready. I always felt teaching primary school children poetry structure, appreciation and forms was a waste of time when many of them so badly needed to work on basic grammar. Our lad now attends the local school and he is a different child. He is still making progress but he is not under constant pressure to reach the next milestone at break neck speed. He loves school now, he is still learning, he is full of confidence and he is having fun and I feel like he has time to enjoy being a kid. I don't regret his time at private school because at the time it was the best education option on offer in our area, he got a lot out of it and it really was a good school. I just feel that we have opted for a different way of life and culture so I feel it is important to embrace and get the best out of what is on offer here. He probably won't receive the same level of academic input as he did in the UK but he will gain other qualities which I feel are important. Having said that he has a fantastic teacher who is a firm supporter of the R's but they also have lots of fun. For example, they get 2 hours of homework a week, which is more than many of the high schools give, but every morning they go in early before school and play games.

Although I was legally bound to follow the curriculum in the UK I feel that children in UK schools are required to do too much too soon. I find it odd that the little ones are made to write before some of them can even hold a pencil properly. I think building confidence, social skills and enjoyment of the school environment are very important elements in educating the whole child in the initial stages of school life. This works very well in Finland where formal education begins at 7 years old. There is an increasingly worrying situation in the UK where many children entering high school have switched off, burnt out and totally hate school. There is definitely a school of thought that suggests that this is linked to the structure and intensity of the primary school curriculum and the age at which children start formal education. Before I left the UK this was a hotly debated topic and I would not be surprised to see a relaxing of the current standards over the coming years.

I am not worried about my 10 year old's future as I know many Ozzie kids who have gone through the system here and gone on to Uni, work etc and been very successful. My almost 4 year old has just started kindy and I have no problem with him being educated here in Oz.

NKSK version 2

Interesting and valid points.

I wouldn't ever support the assessment of a teacher based on a snapshot. But I would support some form of longer term assessment.