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For those worried about education standards in Australia...

For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Old Mar 11th 2007, 9:07 am
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Default For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Some of you know that I have serious reservations about education standards in Australia. Mostly it is gut feeling but I decided a few months ago that I would do a bit of research and a bit of home teaching myself if necessary, to ensure that my kids stay at least level with UK standards.

Anyhow, I found this site...

http://www.parentscentre.gov.uk/lear...gets&tip=intro

Which shows you what a child in the UK should be able to do at certain ages.

The above link takes you to Maths at aged 7 but by hitting some of the links on the left you should be able to get what you want eventually.

I'm hoping that what I'll discover is hard evidence that my gut feeling is actually wrong and kids here are at the same academic level and I don't have to do any home teaching.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:26 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

[QUOTE=NKSK version 2;4506329]Some of you know that I have serious reservations about education standards in Australia. Mostly it is gut feeling but I decided a few months ago that I would do a bit of research and a bit of home teaching myself if necessary, to ensure that my kids stay at least level with UK standards.

Anyhow, I found this site...

http://www.parentscentre.gov.uk/lear...gets&tip=intro

Which shows you what a child in the UK should be able to do at certain ages.

The above link takes you to Maths at aged 7 but by hitting some of the links on the left you should be able to get what you want eventually.

I'm hoping that what I'll discover is hard evidence that my gut feeling is actually wrong and kids here are at the same academic level



Hello
Not at the school im teaching in. They are at least two years behind in reading and writing and thats according to SA standards.

Ive only just arrived 2 months ago so its not down to me they are not up to standard.

However its not really possible to compare uk with Aus (not SA anyway) the children dont start formal education till they are 5. My year ones cannot put a sentence together here, the year 5 dont know how to use full stops, whilst in England a year two class is working on complex sentences and in maths, division but they do start formal education much earlier in the uk.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:31 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by lollyno1 View Post
Not at the school im teaching in. They are at least two years behind in reading and writing and thats according to SA standards.

Ive only just arrived 2 months ago so its not down to me they are not up to standard.

However its not really possible to compare uk with Aus (not SA anyway) the children dont start formal education till they are 5. My year ones cannot put a sentence together here, the year 5 dont know how to use full stops, whilst in England a year two class is working on complex sentences and in maths, division but they do start formal education much earlier in the uk.

But do you think it's because you are at the back of beyond No, really maybe it's just that their last teacher was rubbish?

My daughter, who is 7, brought home some homework last week. She had to plan and write a story. Now they weren't doing that at her last school in the year group she is in now (year 2). They are also doing a lot of work on the environment, which is also something they aren't doing at her old school (well they planted a carrot each )

I think it's swings and roundabouts, especially in Primary school
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:43 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post
But do you think it's because you are at the back of beyond No, really maybe it's just that their last teacher was rubbish?

My daughter, who is 7, brought home some homework last week. She had to plan and write a story. Now they weren't doing that at her last school in the year group she is in now (year 2). They are also doing a lot of work on the environment, which is also something they aren't doing at her old school (well they planted a carrot each )

I think it's swings and roundabouts, especially in Primary school
I think the issue in Australia is that there is so little accountability in primary schools (how can a headteacher be accountable when he can't even choose his staff? (he has to take whatever is given to him by the ed dept)) the standards are at massive variance depending on where you live.

This is why if you are concerned about your child';s education you do have take some initiative yourself.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:49 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
I think the issue in Australia is that there is so little accountability in primary schools (how can a headteacher be accountable when he can't even choose his staff? (he has to take whatever is given to him by the ed dept)) the standards are at massive variance depending on where you live.

This is why if you are concerned about your child';s education you do have take some initiative yourself.

Yes, I totally agree with you there.

I addressed my concerns by getting my daughter moved up a year. She's now doing mostly year 3 work, although in some subjects she is still at year two standards, so that's why she is in a split class.

I guess I've been lucky with the school though.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:56 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post

I guess I've been lucky with the school though.
And this is the sad thing. You got lucky - many children (and parents) - don't.

And it isn't their fault - it's the fault of the Education Departments across Australia.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 11:58 am
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
And this is the sad thing. You got lucky - many children (and parents) - don't.

And it isn't their fault - it's the fault of the Education Departments across Australia.

Ah, but I did my homework before getting here

I put this before the beach, bbq's and anything else that most migrants dream about.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 2:26 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
I think the issue in Australia is that there is so little accountability in primary schools (how can a headteacher be accountable when he can't even choose his staff? (he has to take whatever is given to him by the ed dept)) the standards are at massive variance depending on where you live.

.
Actually there are some pricipals who get to choose their own staff. They are heads of "Merit Select" schools. We have two by us; Carramar and Tapping Primary schools.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by TraceyW View Post
Actually there are some pricipals who get to choose their own staff. They are heads of "Merit Select" schools. We have two by us; Carramar and Tapping Primary schools.
But this is makes the system even more absurd.

Why should some principals be able to and others not?

And perhaps more to he point, people have told me that although the school may be officially able to select staff, in reality it can't.

Everything needs the depatment's green light.
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Hi,

I'm a UK primary teacher and I've started teaching in WA since the beginning of the year.

Principals can 'opt' for their school to become 'merit-select' which basically means jobs are advertised and appointed in a similar way to UK jobs.

However, many schools (around 75%) are still allocated their staff by the department. A lot of this depends on transfer points rather than skills/CV of teacher. Many schools wouldn't have a chance of filling posts by merit-select, eg rural schools. Also, merit-select is a relatively new thing, and my hunch is it will increase in reasonably sized towns.

Re standards. I have been shocked at the low behaviour expectations (I've so far been to 5 different schools, some expensive private, some rural public). Things are much more 'laid back'. And in some ways that is good. Less bs paperwork for me, less 'i'm-going-to-sue-you' attitude from parents.

The emphasis on sport (not uncommon for Phys Ed or fitness to be a daily occurrence) seems to instil a greater amount of confidence in primary-aged children here.

However, there is no doubt that the lack of formal guidelines for teachers curriculum-wise, and no legal requirement for teachers to differentiate, and the low pay low TEE requirements for teachers all have negative consequences.

I have seen plenty of very bright children, who are desperate to learn to read and would be more than capable, but are not taught because 'the school doesn't start phonics until children are 6'. As a previous poster said, by Year 2 in UK children are expected to write in sentences etc etc.

My view is that it always comes down to how good an individual teacher is. It isn't helpful to look at numbers in a league table, or results on a graph. Go and see a prospective school, meet the teacher, ask to observe a lesson. Then make an informed decision.

There are pros and cons to each system (I could go on forever!). Hope this helps someone,

Gemma
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2 View Post
Some of you know that I have serious reservations about education standards in Australia. Mostly it is gut feeling but I decided a few months ago that I would do a bit of research and a bit of home teaching myself if necessary, to ensure that my kids stay at least level with UK standards.

Anyhow, I found this site...

http://www.parentscentre.gov.uk/lear...gets&tip=intro

Which shows you what a child in the UK should be able to do at certain ages.

The above link takes you to Maths at aged 7 but by hitting some of the links on the left you should be able to get what you want eventually.

I'm hoping that what I'll discover is hard evidence that my gut feeling is actually wrong and kids here are at the same academic level and I don't have to do any home teaching.

Thank you for posting that. I have huge respect for the way you post on here, you are one of the few who will talk about australia as it is, as someone who lives here and about the things many australians have a problem with too.

It does not matter how much 'research' you do on schools simply because as you pointed out there is no accountability or set standards for teaching. You can get the most slapdash haphazard bizzare level of teacher one year and sometimes a dedicated professional who is as aware of the problems as the public. 2 classes in the same grade can be learning a totally different level/amount of work! we have experience that, and every time there is a public outcry that teachers should be assessed and reviewed just like other professionals there is an uproar by the teachers union.

Another thing that might help is the states having one system instead of 9, very handy for a country where large chunks of the population move interstate following work!
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 9:28 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

we too have concerns on this subject
i have 2 sons aged 4 and 6.
My 4 year old (august baby) can already read (admittedly only small words) but he already knows all his phonics.and some simple maths
it'll drive him crazy going to "kindy".
And my 6 year old is a year further on .
i'm just worried the 2 years of "too easy boring school" will turn them off to education as they are both so keen at the moment....
we are supposed to be doing this for "the kids" and i'm starting to worry that this could really damage them
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 9:56 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by JAMMIE DODGER View Post
we too have concerns on this subject
i have 2 sons aged 4 and 6.
My 4 year old (august baby) can already read (admittedly only small words) but he already knows all his phonics.and some simple maths
it'll drive him crazy going to "kindy".
And my 6 year old is a year further on .
i'm just worried the 2 years of "too easy boring school" will turn them off to education as they are both so keen at the moment....
we are supposed to be doing this for "the kids" and i'm starting to worry that this could really damage them

You can try to get them moved up a grade, but of course if your intending to stay here, as they get older this can be a problem socially, when puberty, the car/party culture kicks in being 18 months or more younger may not be easy.

However we have done it with son 3, hes 9 and in grade 6, still bored tho, never has homework, teacher cant find anything his level to read, does the maths and spelling sheets in a fraction of the time. Friends from singapore had the same problems but they have returned now. Dont know what else to do the schools are aware the work is way too easy but to be honest they are so busy with the ones who dont find it easy he just gets overlooked as a nice easy kid who can help the other kids. Only option is to do stuff at home, main problem with this is, we work, time is a factor, send him to school for 6 hours of play then do work at home, not exactly ideal is it?
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:06 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post
But do you think it's because you are at the back of beyond No, really maybe it's just that their last teacher was rubbish?

My daughter, who is 7, brought home some homework last week. She had to plan and write a story. Now they weren't doing that at her last school in the year group she is in now (year 2). They are also doing a lot of work on the environment, which is also something they aren't doing at her old school (well they planted a carrot each )

I think it's swings and roundabouts, especially in Primary school
What about sand pits? You can't just have swings and roundabouts, you need a sandpit.


ZX.....
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Old Mar 11th 2007, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: For those worried about education standards in Australia...

Originally Posted by Wendy View Post
But do you think it's because you are at the back of beyond No, really maybe it's just that their last teacher was rubbish?

My daughter, who is 7, brought home some homework last week. She had to plan and write a story. Now they weren't doing that at her last school in the year group she is in now (year 2). They are also doing a lot of work on the environment, which is also something they aren't doing at her old school (well they planted a carrot each )

I think it's swings and roundabouts, especially in Primary school
For the last three years the school has had newly qualified teachers. However there was no direction from the principal at all. So they did what they could. There are a couple of children who are up to standard, one who is desperate to learn and improve.

The youngest children are making improvement but its the middle band who have the 'cant do it, wont do it attitude' Thats why I have spent the this weekend and today in the school trying to make it a nice learning environment.

Im happy that my son is being educated in the UK.
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