Breezey

I meant-Apart from that strange story I posted that sure has been our experience in Surrey-zero tolerance and very little bullying

Breezey

I always assumed it has improved-while kinda suspecting it hasnt-its like many things about Oz.
Oz-the country that could have(easily) been the Greatest on Earth-way beyond anyplace-if not for the small mindedness of some Australians.

Hutch

I don't know ... there's masses of evidence from both countries that it's going on and neither places policies appear to be much good. I strongly suspect you'll never eradicate it completely, because it's kids learning the rules, the parameters, what they can and can't get away with it. We're the human animal, not that far removed from the beasties we evolved from, and competition in peer groups will always exist.

OzSheila

Or as I find myself constantly saying "things haven't really changed"...........(in 13 years!)

Breezey

Wow-thats what I keep thinking-Australia never ever changes. Maybe thats a good thing- I remember reading an old letter by my grandfather-"went down to neilsons bay for the day-had Ice cream-sunbaked-went to the Watson hotel for a beer and then into town for a movie before heading to the RSL.."-that was in the 1940's

OzTennis

Many important issues are raised in this thread.

My gut feeling and experience of having taught in both countries and seeing the evidence is that bullying seems an equally serious problem in the UK and Australia.

The person who thinks bullying only occurs in the really bad areas of the UK is seriously mistaken. Bullying ranges from I've got the latest mobile phone and you haven't, I passed my test and you didn't, I'm slim and you're not, I play on my computer until the early hours of the morning, my mummy will tell you off (no reference to OP intended), I don't want you to be in my gang (no reference to Paul Gadd intended) right up to physical bullying. If you think the physical side only goes on in deprived areas, again wrong. Look in any playground, any corridor, anywhere.

The tendency in both countries is to 'cover your back' by having an anti-bullying strategy in writing and staff identified to deal with incidents but let's just hope nothing happens because it is a difficult thing to prove. If it gets as far as court, the British and Australian legal systems both rely on the principle of innocent until proven otherwise so witness statements, video evidence etc are required. Bullying also can take the form of children falsely accusing others of bullying (again not in OP's case).

Another point is that probably following the lead of the US (!) both societies have become increasingly litigious. Schools and authorities fear being taken to court over bullying, not being given adequate learning support, not being allowed to wear religious clothing and so on. For example, there were 3 court cases in Britain in the news just this week.

Case 1 - and I am not joking with this! A deputy headteacher in England is suing her local authority for £1 million damages. Reason? She had a chair in her office which made rude noises every time she sat on it and it became a joke amongst pupils, staff and parents. Apparently she was off work with stress and missed out on promotion because of this and is suing for loss of earnings and pension rights. You may ask why she didn't change the chair, put a cushion on it etc but she claimed it was the employer's responsibility under health and safety regulations.

Case 2. A lady was phoned up to come into her child's school. When she arrived she was asked to put a plaster on her daughter's finger which she had cut slightly. Why didn't you do that she asked the teacher? Local authority policy (Derbyshire)! If I put a plaster on the child's finger and she got an allergic reaction to the plaster the authority could be sued big time.

Case 3. The girl in Luton who was excluded from school for wearing Muslim clothing (jibab?) Won a court case to be re-instated, school appealed and it went to the Lords, decision overturned. Not an easy one as it is possible to see the school's and the individual's point of view.

Think about it also from the school/authority/education department point of view also. A lot of PC'ness which seems silly stems from fear of being taken to court or being seen to discriminate. You can also be sued by the person who feels they are wrongly accused of bullying. I don't profess to have the answers, its just a far more complex and insidious issue than it appears.

I am also appalled to think that children as young as that have unfettered access to the internet for such lengths of time. If the PC is in the bedroom then while the parents are asleep it is inevitable that games junkies are going to get their fix.

It is a much wider issue but the family unit seems to be breaking down everywhere as separate eating times, PC's and TV's in bedrooms etc proliferate. Does bullying of parents by children take place - for 8 and 9 year olds to have their own PC in their bedroom? "Jason and Kylie have a PC in their bedroom, I want one, I want one, I want one!!" Some parents also use their children as status symbols (chips off the old block as it were with the latest this that and the other to reflect upon themselves).

I'll just get my crash helmet on in preparation for some responses!

OzTennis

Breezey

The one about the chair truly is the UK of today-and its the ones who complain about PC that end up being the ones who always rort the system!

Hutch

Hehe - that's nice. Some things do change though, I have a photo of my grandfather on one of the harbour ferries wearing a full suit and smart hat like all the other commuters around him.

Jensen Healey

The hearing was held yesterday and was over very quickly. Although the ruling won't be for a week or two, I suspect (and hope) that it will be rejected. As the head teacher pointed out, the deputy head involved is a budget holder and could easily have ordered herself a new chair!

Hutch

No arguments from me. I particularly agree regarding the status symbol thing - I think a lot of parents project their own insecurities and failures onto their sprogs and that manifests itself in all sorts of ways.

OzTennis

Yep! The lady in her evidence said that she asked her employer time and time again to order her a new chair and they ignored her pleas, so she felt they were liable under 1974 HASAWA and therefore responsible for her not getting promotion and losing £1 mill. She has temporarily replaced the 'biggest sponger in Britain' in the tabloids (the guy with 14 or so children by 5 different women who feels the council isn't doing enough for him because he wants to be re-housed and he has a caravan and 4WD but is just on benefits). That's when the tabloids aren't banging on about Lady Diana and how it was a conspiracy!

OzTennis

OzSheila

Even tho we can afford it, my children will never have either a TV or a PC in their bedrooms!

They are each limited to one hour only on "technology" (PC, Playstation, Gameboys) a day.

We (mostly) sit down to dinner together (without the TV) because I believe (rather old fashionedly(?)) that "the family who eats together stays together". It is not always easy - for this reason I miss my English Sunday lunch!

We do have cousins who have PC/DVD players/TVs in their bedrooms and their grandparents are horrified because when the children stay over they have to sleep in the lounge because the only way they can go to sleep is in front of the TV!

biggy

depends on the school and how they handle it...my daughter is very quiet...she was bullied in the UK, and also here...but I would say it was delt with better here

OzTennis

Others will inevitably look at it differently but I say all credit to you. I suppose "man" has moved on from reading a good book to help us fall asleep to needing to watch the latest violence on DVD (pleasant dreams)?

Obviously customs and habits change over time and we would expect things to be different in our generation compared to those of our parents or grandparents. However, we have to ask whether there may be a link between these changes and other things. Were people happier and was there less crime and so on when the family unit was stronger? Or perhaps there isn't a link?

OzTennis

Hutch

Early days for us I guess, since our son's just approaching five - but we have the same rules. A lot of his friends already have a TV/DVD player in their rooms and are sent up their to watch telly to keep them quiet. We've recently got rid of all our TVs bar the main one in the living room - makes it pretty easy to police.