Is it really worth it?
 

Hi All,

Just browsing through some of the posts here..the level of desperation to get that visa takes me back to when we went through all this in '03/'04.

Is UK plc such a bad place? Nah it's just different - nowhere is perfect.

We have been in Perth for 2 years now..the first six months were great - beaches, sunshine, etc, etc all the stuff you imagine enjoying when you are at the point most folks in this group appear to be. When the novelty wears off (oh yes it will - this is not a holiday) at least one of you will likely start to miss stuff you currently take for granted. If you have family here that will obviously be a help, but there are a lot of late 30's/early 40's Brits here that have taken the plunge 10 years too late and find themselves with a very difficult path back.

Examples?

Take an experienced gas fitter or plumber that had all the right ticks on the TRA assessment then finds once here that he can't work in the trade without undergoing a 2 year apprenticeship. (some of them end up driving courier vans or similar to survive - nothing wrong with that but it's not what they came here for)

Electrician? Similar story.

Painter? That's also a registered profession here chum - don't think you can just buy a van and get going as a contractor.

Quality of life is a subjective thing - is it having a pool in the back garden and living near the beach? Or is it having a dinner party with the friends you have spent half a lifetime with, a night out on the town with the boys/girls now and again, being able to drop the kid's off at your mum's place at the drop of a hat - don't even think about what your first Christmas will feel like, I haven't met an expat here that actually enjoys Christmas here even after many years - some of you will certainly be begging for Jan 2nd to come around so that you can forget about it for another year!

Many will end up sitting on the end of the bed, head in hands thinking "what the hell have we done!" (I thought it was just me until I confessed this to other ex-pats here)

Of course you won't want to hear this sort of stuff when you have spent a small fortune with DIMIA - 2 years ago I didn't either. No matter how much research you think you have done it will not be enough - there will be things you did not count on.

If you have spent good money on this and are determined to give it a go here's one tip above all others

DONT SELL THE HOUSE UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO!

Refinance and/or rent it out if you can (remember UK interest is currently lower than AUS) - that's what an Aussie going to the UK would likely do! If you still love it here after the novelty wears off you could sell up a couple of years down the line - if you don't you would have your HOME to go back to (i.e. not just a house)

Australia is a beautiful place to spend time (I have visited various parts of WA, Sydney and Melbourne since emigrating) but remember most things you will gain will eventually be balanced against what you are leaving behind.

The scales may not tip the way you think!

Good Luck All!

John

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Oh believe me, you are not alone!

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

we all come here i think initially to improve our lives ,experience a different way of life ,give our kids better options all these we have done and all these are positives.Its hard to define why some settle and some dont ,i worked in germany for 2 years and felt more at home there than here .For me its the history and attachment to the country ,when im in england i feel im with my own it doesnt matter what colour or creed they are .I have said it before if one is intending to return to the uk for family reasons its abig mistake you have to return because you love what the place has to offer ie country walks ,pubs,history,closeness to the continent,generally tighter communities,even the weather ,
I have heard it a dozen times people want to come to aussie to lead a more outdoor lifestyle we actually spent more time out doors walking along the beachs on the south coast than we ever do here ,we spent many a sunday exploring the coastline of dorset and never got bored with it ,so i believe this outdoor lifestyle isa misnomer as most people dont want to be out doors when it s a 100 degrees they are either in house with the aircon or at the shopping centres cooling down .The old chestnut of getting more for your money too is rubbish if you want to live anywhere where they have at least a corner shop within walkin distance you got to pay uk prices ,sure you can get the big block and the 4x2 in the burbs but its like living in a dentists waiting room so sterile and fake .Yes im a believer the grass aint greener ,i still say dont knock it till youve tried it

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Agreed - if you don't try it you'll never know, I guess I am just sharing a bit of experience. I can remember thinking we had done the hard bit getting through the 18-24 month visa process - that's a walk in the park compared to what comes next!

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I've been using this site now for almost two years. When I first used it, I honestly thought that Aussie was the best country in the world, as the last time I had been to the UK was in 87, It was a terrible trip. The place looked rough, Our two kids at the time were really young, and were very demanding and unsettled. In short we couldn't wait to get back to Aussie. After two weeks we almost cut our trip short and wanted to come home. (back to Aussie that is)

In the past two years. I've had a trip back to the UK, it was fantastic. the place in my opinion had improved to such an extent that it was almost unrecognisable, People seemed brighter friendlier more affluent, and the UK in general seemed much cleaner well kept, infact a place to be very comfortable in.

The point of my post is this.. Having taken the above into consideration, I would suggest that all potential migrants, should take the view, that the Migration may come with a return ticket at some point down the track. IE: Nothing wrong with a nice long 20 year stint in Aussie, But it doesn't have to be totally permanent.

I'm of the opinion now, that more and more people will come to Aussie enjoy it, however a larger percentage will return having thoroughly enjoyed their time and experience here.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I think thats what a lot of people don't realise - getting the visa is the easy bit.
And if you are here on a spouse visa there is the extra bit to consider - you may have come here alone, your family is on the other side of the world, and with a spouse from another country you will always have one person feeling far from home.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Or you end up with nobody knowing where the hell home is for anyone!!!

I am really hoping we can put down some roots in Oz which has never been home for either of us. NZ was never home for me and I'm not convinced that even after 12 years UK is home for Mrs Buzzy, although now we have kids that might be different.

Cheers

Buzzy

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Painter? That's also a registered profession here chum - don't think you can just buy a van and get going as a contractor.


John[/QUOTE]

I agree.. nothing wrong with being a registered profession.CHUM!!!!!!!!! But you would think after doing all the TRA bit and the expense that is involved there, you would not have to re-train or prove yourself again on arrival. Its a Union controlled trade industry and professional bodies getting another chunk of your hard earned dosh when you get here to prove yourself again. I would have thought that if Oz wanted the professional tradies ( and they readily advertise this ) then why continue to put bureaucratic obstacles in your way upon arrival. On the other hand you can just buy a van and get going as a painting contractor down here in Victoria

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I would rather regret the things i have done than those i have not. If you don't try it you can't win it.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

That is a very good question. Only one way to really find out for most people, unfortunately.

In our case, we came over from Tokyo, where we'd been living for the last five years. We have three young kids and we lived in a 67 square meter flat. There were a few reasons why we chose to move to Perth rather than returning to the UK, including spacious, cheap real estate (not cheap anymore, by the way), and lack of time difference with Japan, as I work Tokyo business hours. I wanted to slow my life down a bit, but seem to have gone way too far. I feel like I'm living in a retirement village, but still being forced to work like a dog. Many of those around me seem to drift through life worrying about their outdoor furniture settings and how to get the latest top of the range Falcon or whatever the Holden version is.

I've had no work or financial worries as I was lucky enough to be able to bring my job with me. I'd lived away from the UK for a long time, so I figured homesickness would not be a problem. We now have all the space and comforts that come with day-to-day life in Perth. But on the whole I'm beginning to think that I was happier in Tokyo in our 67 square meters (versus around 300 here). Our lives had more depth there.

For many people, sunshine and beaches and relaxed lifestyle may not be enough to outweigh the less obvious negatives which tend to come with moving so far from familiarity, and which can only really be understood after the fact. There are many positives about living here, but I'm not sure if they are enough to justify staying in our case. Lucky to have the choice. The jury is still out after almost two years, but we're drifting toward giving the UK a try.

Also, I notice that a lot of people justify their move by saying they want a better life for their kids. I was probably the same to some extent, but if I'm really honest with myself I think I was seduced by the idea of a life of leisure near the ocean, lazing around drinking beer by the swimming pool. Self-deception is a very powerful thing.

The kids love it here (school is very undemanding, difficult things are avoided, and everything is fun), and so does my wife (she's Japanese and there is far less social pressure here). I was the driving force behind the move, and now I'm the one having serious doubts.

I'd advise most people to think very carefully about what is important to them. Unfortunately, I think for most people the only way to find out is to come and try it for themselves. Some love it, and some don't. For some it's an adventure. For some it's a disaster.

Very interesting post from MonkeyC.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Don't say that on here mate, they all think the UK is similar to hell and Oz is utopia ;)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I'll second that! Your not alone, I really wish I hadn't sold the house, because If I go back now it's going to be really painfull to get back on the property ladder.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Brilliant post monkeyc!!

We've lived in the UK now for 6 years and are quite settled now. Have been in our current area 2.5yrs and have made some really good friends. For the first time the UK now feels like home. (We're from South Africa originally).

BUT.....

As we want to live in a climate similar to what we were used to growing up we thought we would give Perth a try.

It is hard to move away from your country of birth. After 6yrs now I hardly feel the homesickness anymore - but it was difficult especially in the 1st year. I only latest 2.5months in London on our first attempt. Then 10 months later we came back and I had a different perspective on things and I realized that I had to try harder to make it work otherwise I was wasting my time being in the UK.

When it comes to moving country it is OK to be fickle - you will change your mind so many times during the months and years that you are away from your country birth. Allow yourself frequent visits home to see family and close friends. Stay in close contact also by email and phoning. Take lots of video so the grandparents don't miss out too much on the little ones growing up.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Really interesting thread. I am about to return to the UK after 2.5 years in Oz. I have the same job here as I had in the UK, but my pay is half, my mortgage double... I did however keep my home in the Uk. God am I thankful I kept it. These are sound words written in here to anyone thinking of coming over here. I am now in quite a priviledged postion of being able to live between both countries, but would always choose to live in the UK and perhaps spend the Winter months out here in Oz. Good luck to all who take the leap, but keeping an escape route is sound advice, you would be fools not to take it.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Shesh man, half pay and double mortgage? What are you doing for a living, selling England Football Shirts in the Sydney CBD? :D

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

This is a really impressive and well balanced post with genuine insight into life and mindset of Perth residents . Have some karma mate :)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I think that anyone in that situation after so long, should seriously consider the return.

It's OK for those who come here and reduce there working week and purposefully reduce income, but not if they end up with a double mortgage.

It's also understandable for some to be in that position during the initial period, but unless there is light at the end of the tunnel, reconsidering the options is a good thing.

Fortunately not many appear to end up in that wage position http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309102

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Have to disagree. Without making it an Oz v Uk post.

I think it depends where you like in the UK. I live in South London and it has got much much worse in the last 2 years. Its not a nice place to live. :(

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Ozzie eagle is from S.London, and it's neverbeen a nice place to live as full of south londoners :p

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Interesting post.

So it all boils down to (as Exile said):

"Some love it, and some don't. For some it's an adventure. For some it's a disaster."

Wow - who'd have thought it! :rolleyes:

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Thank for a candid, intelligent post.

ACE

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

like some one said , it an adventure, for some it will work , and for some it wont.But you are a long time dead. even if you do end up coming back, at least you will now, wot,s to lose, money, well you would have still spent it living here to . :scared:

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I agree, I have lived in Cold wet Manchester all my 33 years, and want to at least give Oz a go before him up there calls time.

I have lost close family recently to illness and it really does make you realise how precious our time here really is. So if your thinking is that Oz will give you a better life, you have to at least find out for yourself. Plus the World is getting a smaller place all the time, and if you consider it all a gamble, it must be a gamble worth trying. I would rather regret having tried than regret and never tried!

Just my opinion.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Australia isn't utopia. I can remember, many years ago, when I had been here about a year, a minister, he was Dutch, telling me that it would take 7 years for us to get back to the same standard of living we had in Scotland. How many years now? Who knows. What he didn't say was how long it would take to gain the same kind of personal relationships that we had. That I think is the make or break of staying and being happy here. It is so hard not to be able to say,"Remember when......" That's what most people miss. If you can cope with that you will eventually be able to say to your friends in Oz, "Remember when..."
Do I make any sense? I hope so.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

It makes perfect sense mate. It doesn't take extensive reading of the 'Moving back' forum or indeed this part of the site to realise that the number one reason by a country mile, that people return to the UK, is missing friends and family. If you have *any* doubts about losing that support network then think very hard about emigrating.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Firstly, welcome to the forum John. Remarkably eloquent post for a first timer.

Is it worth it? Of course it is now that we are here. If you need to ask yourself that question then I would suggest a re-think before leaving.

If you truly believe in what you are doing, anything is 'worth' it in my opinion.

(still in the honeymoon zone) ;)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Hang on a minute.....your last sentence "any doubts about losing that support network"...I personally didn't rely on my parents or my friends for anything very much. Just their love.

When a simple hug, or a cuppa, or even being able to phone when you fancy a natter (instead of planning ahead 8 hours!) it's all a long way away now. What I miss is the closeness.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Fair enough. :)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

We won't regret a thing as far as family is concerned. We have had zero support from both sides and I mean zero. Before anyone suggests "oh you must have had a little bit", trust me, zero!

It's time to look after number one and his family, simple. I know this is digressing slightly, a mini rant I suppose.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Why is it every time i read a post by a brit it is nearly always about what you miss about the uk never what you enjoy about oz.any one thinking of applying for a visa would be really put off by some of the posts. perhaps some time in the uk would make those of us lucky enough to have visas realise how lucky we are . all you read is people missing the simplest of things ie chocolate ,marks and spencers and how long it takes for a traffic light to change .is this so bad ? life is too short,ENJOY IT!!!!!!!

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Careful mate - the doom and gloom merchants will be accusing you of wearing rose-tinted glasses! :)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Positives? People take you for what you are, not what you've got. You can be yourself without being limited by your age ie " Oh, look at her doing, acting, wearing at her age!" Yes the weather is brilliant if you discount the droughts and the bushfires. Not being negative but you can't have one without the other. My only whinge after almost 40 years is I still can't hack the humidity!!:)

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

couldnt have said it better myself.I am still in london waiting for my visa a nd after watching that silly woman on life down under moaning about oz have crap knickers i thought to myself "get a life love".Why people are thinking of things like that i am here with a son who can not even go to school through bullying.School did nothing.He was threatend,abused ect What i want to say is those that seem to have doubts in oz seemed to have a good life in britain anyway and are just looking for an adventure while others are desperate to give their family not a great life but just a livable one!If you dont like oz thats fine as i am not living there so i can not comment but please think really carefully the reasons you are giving.As for missing family i will miss mine but my kids life comes first and i can cope with missing family as long as my kids arec living not existing.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

dont understand your reply sorry

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Hi

Just reading your post and yes it does make you wonder if you're doing the right thing, then I look around here and think where we live - it used to be a nice village surrounded by countryside, now theres building going on all round us (new site of 800 houses and an industrial estate). A plan for a travellers site up the road. Roadworks and traffics jams every direction you go. Not wanting to go into the City as no longer feel safe (gangs of kids and undesirables etc...) even though I have lived in LA and Miami and not a timid person. I work in a school for 14 to 19 year olds and witness abuse to teachers, violence, smoking, drugs and don't want my own kids to go there.


And yes we have thought of moving to Devon or Cornwall but then house prices are too much and work hard to find.

So on the whole I will give OZ a go. I can't lie I know I will miss friends and family but most of my friends have either moved to Canada, Australia or New Zealand or are in the process of doing so.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

all due respect to the original poster, but im sure everyone thinks very long and hard before making the decision to go through the migration process and uproot their family to the other side of the world. ok, maybe the odd one or two get seduced by home and away and neighbours....but as several posters have already pointed out - life is an adventure...and i too would rather regret doing something than regret not having done it. just because every poster doesnt bear their souls on here doesnt mean they are naive enough to think aus is a utopia - in fact in all honesty i cant recall reading a post from anyone who does. there may be the odd outbreak of rose tinted specs every now and then...but why shouldnt people get excited by what they are about to embark on?
of course people are excited by the prospect of a new life, and the tv does tend to gloss the image of it being the perfect place to live......but if we all learnt from everyone elses experiences and had second/third thoughts, no-one would ever move from the place of their birth.

good luck to the op.....and to anyone new - by all means take in what posters who have made the move have pointed out they find a down side...but for gods sake, make your own mind up about whether aus is for you by going ahead with your move (its the only real way to find out for certain) .... life is WAAAAY too short to let others influence you.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Sorry thought you wanted some positives on living in Australia. Gave you a couple of mine.

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

yes sorry when i read it properly i understood :o

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

I agree with this .. speaking personally, we came here with an open mind and werent running from anything. We had good jobs and a nice house in the UK however we werent actually doing much other than working. Hubby was fed up working in factory environment and I was stressed out in job which didnt leave much time for family. We have now embarked on our 'adventure' and are only four months in and are thoroughly enjoying it. We are both working, I am working school hours which is great, kids are in school and we are enjoying our new situation. Australia is by no means perfect, same as UK, there are good things and bad things, but we have changed our lifestyle and have spent more quality time with the kids in the last four months than we have in the last year.

Yes, I miss knowing that the family are close by, but I never relied on them for anything but knowing they were there if that makes sense. However, we are making new friends and gaining new experiences and while we are settled we will remain. If the day came that we didn't feel like this then, yes we would weigh up the options and consider a return to the U.K. but what an adventure we would have had!

Jaymac

Re: Is it really worth it?
 

Agree with all this and the post before.

As someone so aptly put it on this forum last week:

'Australia - Same shit, shinier bucket.'

Anyone who thinks life stops and becomes some sort of utopia should get a reality check... life goes on whatever country you're in, but the better off the environment in which you live, the better off the people in it.

I am going to Aus to GET a family ... but I am not in any way under any illusions.